This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Sunday, May 31, 2009

Michael Rivero Exposed As A Right Woos Left Jew Hater

Too many Jew haters are showing up on "progressive" blogs endorsing Michael Rivero and other disinformation pimps. They are so desperate to prevent this truth being revealed, that they are spamming my diaries, busting out margins forcing me to go Arthur Gilroy style, practising tag abuse, and trolling nearly my every comment.

These people have not only ruined the Free Speech Zone but are determined to do the same to this blog. This diary will be primarily consist of copy and pastes from the fine work of the_last_name_left as originally written for his fine blog.

Good people, ask yourself why right wingers and Jew haters are all over "progressive boards. Ask why they present disingenuous bloggers such as KarmaFish with ammunition to paint the left as Jew haters. Reflect on how such memes have originated from right wing slobs such as Rivero, Willis Carto, Hal Turner, Curtis Maynard, and various other neonazis. Ask yourself why fake lefties such as Mattes and Tinoire of Progressive Independent have been so determined to laud the tinfoil, freeper troll known as Michael Rivero. Tinoire, by the way, jumped the shark in a big way, when she showed Pinche Tejano style support for Ron Paul.

Tinoire is the admin for an offshoot of Democratic Underground. She is an MSOC to DKOS fake oppositional type. In the past she has sponsored the What Really Happened homepage and has also been photographed with an insidious neocon named Paul Wolfowitz.

She is clearly in bed with Michael Rivero, as is JSR's and Lauren S' good friend Mattes.

These are the Palestinians' worst "friends." They are concern trolls affiliated with Jew hate. They reinforce the lies spread by KarmaFish type operatives, that Jew hate originates from the left, when it has truly originated from the right.

Before we get to The Last Name Left's stuff, here is a bit of my own.

Is Michael Rivero a spook?

He used to post on google user groups.


He has said before that he has had two careers. As he told J. Conti of Bank Index:

I have had two careers, one with NASA and one in the film industry. Currently I am a partner in a small production company.

What exactly did he do while at NASA?

...Prior to his film career, Michael worked with NASA developing advanced image processing tools for the Viking Missions to Mars.

Check out his email address from a google group page from back in the 90s.

Jet Propulsion Laboratory-Military????

There's an Andrew Hoppin from NASA who likes to write a lot on the internet. He is a contact of Steven Hertzberg over at Jaiku. Do Hoppin and Rivero know each other? Hertzberg was an aeronautical engineer yet ends up also making thousands of posts and leaving plenty of internet crumbs. Does anyone else find any of this at all curious? Did Kos ever leave the CIA?

Check out Rivero's posting history. Plenty o' conspiracy theories, many of which are of the It's the Joooos, run for the hills variety. He also dabbled into the Vince Foster and was one of the original but, but, but Clinton astroturfers. It's as if people like him and Kos were "created." How much of the internet could be in fact "black ops" right woos left trolling?

Rivero used to post o'plenty at the Free Republic. Soon his own website would become hugely popular, like Kos, Jeff Rense, Alex Jones and other head scratchers. Has Rivero like a DailyKos simply been a manufactured part of one side in scripted, controlled debate? Exactly how much are we getting astroturfed?

Sorry I don't have the link for the following. This was a letter to Rivero I noticed I still had but never posted. It was one from a holocaust denier. Michael Rivero has been stoking anti-Jewish sentiments on the internet. There was the crap going on at the "unofficial" forum with Ender and the others. Rivero is a liar, if he says he had nothing to do with that website. He let it house his archived letters. He prominently had the link up at his wrh website. Perhaps Michael Rivero was the moderator 86Bush the whole time?

Rivero Enables A Holocaust Denier Through His Silence

Why was Michael Rivero working for McDonnell Douglas? Why the military ties?

The rest of this diary is from The_Last_Blog_Left

Rivero Broadcasts from Far-Right Conference

Rivero promoted, and then reported live from the far-right, white-nationalist conference that masqueraded as "No More Wars For Israel" conference.

Hear the broadcast here:

Rivero heavily promoted the conference, and when the conference was turned away by the venue (because it was obviously such a fascist far-right love-in) Rivero heavily promoted the false pretense that the conference had been refused to go-ahead because it was anti-zionist. In fact the conference was refused because it was a far-right, fascist conference, masquerading as an anti-war conference.

That much is obvious from the list of attendees.

David Duke's website promoted the conference, saying

Legendary freedom activist Mike Rivero along with Hesham Tillawi broadcast this event live over their radio programs Saturday, super activists Chuck Carlson, Mike Piper, Rabbi Dov Weiss, Paul Fromm, Wendy Campbell, Dr. Frederick Toben, Eileen Fleming, Patrick Grimm and many more patriots were interviewed, you can hear the full audio report below.


Rivero hosts articles by Curt racist-fascist Maynard

Rivero and White Nationalist KKK Grand Wizard David Duke

Mike Rivero invited David Duke on his radio show 17 February 2007 to talk about such issues as the jailing of Ernst Zundel.

An audio excerpt is here:
{This link has been scrubbed}

Rivero's Radio Show featuring racist, fascist Curt Maynard

Here's Mike Rivero featuring Curt Maynard on his radio show:

Not a single mention of Maynard's racism.
Not a single mention of Maynard's fascism.
Not a mention of Maynard's association with Vanguard News Network.
Not a mention that Rivero, along with Maynard helped publicise the NoMoreWarsForIsrael conference. No mention that Rivero and Maynard were well aware the conference was a front - it was in fact a far-right organised conference involving Maynard's and Rivero's Nazi chums Joe Fields (Nordwave), John De Nugent etc.........

This is Rivero's "discretion" - lieing by omission - that he promotes, and leads his readers to organised fascism.

Maynard is a racist, and a fascist. And Rivero knows it. But Rivero puts his readership in touch with Maynard, without ever informing his audience that Maynard is a racist and a fascist.

That is Rivero providing a service for fascism. It's Rivero acting as a recruiter for fascism - Rivero acting as a false front for fascism.

Rivero and the "Special Forces Underground"

Rivero was collaborating with a subversive American para-military group, the Special Forces Underground

Led by Green Beret Steven Barry, the self-proclaimed "commander" of the secretive group of disgruntled US military elite forces members, Barry also served as editor of the quarterly newsletter, "The Resister."

Routine commentary vigorously sanctioned a white supremacist agenda; "The United States military was created by white men for white men to defend a white nation. It wasn't designed as a multicultural, diverse, touchy-feely, huggy-snuggly social experiment in race relations. ... Twenty years ago, you could trust a black to do a job. Now it' s questionable."

The Resister Issue 1 -
The Purported Newsletter of the Special Forces Underground
This is the first issue to appear of a newsletter by a group calling itself the "Special Forces Underground". This group, embedded deep within the military structure of the United States, opposes the idea of a New World Order along with transfer of the soldiers to United Nations commanders. This document is as I recieved it, outside of HTML formatting changes.

Volume I, Number 1. Summer 1994.
Boxholder, P.O. Box 1403, Addison, Texas, 75001 (Price) GRATIS...

What We Stand For
The philosophy of The RESISTER is straightforward: strict constitutionalism, isolationism, laissez-faire capitalism, individual rights, limited government, and republicanism.

What We Oppose
The RESISTER opposes statism, liberalism, tribalism, socialism, collectivism, internationalism, democracy, altruism, pull politics, and the New World Order...

...Questions to the Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator: Michael Rivero:


The Resister Issue 2 -
The Purported Newsletter of the Special Forces Underground
Volume I, Number 2. Autumn 1994.
Boxholder, P.O. Box 1403, Addison, Texas, 75001 (Price) GRATIS

For the past two months our observers have been reporting that some readers are questioning the integrity of contributors to The RESISTER because they choose to be known by pseudonyms rather then their real names. This is a legitimate concern and it deserves to be answered at length.

First, no contributor is obliged to use a pseudonym, as anybody who has actually READ the first issue can tell you. Second, the decision to require staff members and regular contributors to use pseudonyms was an OPSEC issue, not an ethical one.

Third, there is a historical precedent we follow which, if not already familr to you, in all likelihood never will be, and is therefore none of your business. Fourth, publishing The RESISTER is a security risk in its own right, let alone referring to in tradecraft and organization. Really, what DO they teach you guys in the Q-course these days?

The RESISTER is a response to the altruistic cannibalism which is consuming the principle of inalienable individual rights upon which this nation was founded and which have been served-up in sacrifice to the mob god of democracy, the minority god of tribalism, the nature god of environmentalism, the slave god of collectivism, and the statist god of socialism.

Do you want to know who we are? We are the individuals who conceive the ideas the cretinous mob calls "the team effort." We are the individuals whose excellence is subverted by the racist policy of "equal opportunity." We are the independent, innovative, and creative who have been enslaved to serve the "greater good." Without us you would still be prying roots out of ground with a pointed stick.

It would be a great comfort and convenience for the myriad unconstitutional federal agencies to note us, categorize us, and file us away for future "reference." We will not give them an early chance, nor will we be goaded into identifying ourselves by sneering comments about anonymous writers.

Every whim based, undefined, un-judicable law it passes; every unconstitutional gang of armed badge wielding thugs it deploys; every unconstitutional agency it creates; every incomprehensible special interest regulation it mandates; every dime extorted through taxation and redistributed to the incompetent and undeserving; every American
life lost in some altruistic war, humanitarian assistance, or peacekeeping operation, demonstrates the illegitimacy of the federal government.

The federal government os not "of the people," it is the instrument of pull-peddlers. It is not "by the people," it is the toady of special interests. It is not "for the people," it is the exercise of force for the sake of force.

Pass laws against us; we will not obey. Regulate our activities; we will not comply. Legislate our behavior; we will not consent.
We are freemen. We will not be subjugated. We have the guns to prove it.

...Questions to the Middle-Aged Mutant Ninja Animator: Michael Rivero:
Clearly Michael Rivero has called into question his own integrity as a purveyor of truth with suspicious connections and prejudicial innuendo. It stands to reason that Michael Rivero's intentions for whatreallyhappened is not to promote truth but a contrarian political agenda - just as militant, manipulative, and deceitful as its

S Boyle,,

S Boyle wrote an article about the apparent connections between Mike Rivero of and, amongst other things, and the SpecialForcesUnderground. responded with threats of legal action, seemingly based on their assertions that S Boyle was completely wrong to make any connection between Rivero/WRH and

But we have a letter to a US attorney which somehow manages to give Rivero's address as IDENTICAL to that of Here:

It says:

Michael Rivero
20500 W. Country Club Drive
Aventura, Florida 33180

S Boyle had said that: (defunct) is/was owned by LLC is ALSO owned by AND each carried their own interview with Rivero - apparently written by one J Conti.

" is a division of the PMC4, LLC family.
The PMC4, LLC Corporate Office is located in Aventura Florida."

GoOff! lists their address as
20500 W. Country Club Drive
Suite # 814
Aventura, Florida 33180

PMC4 lists their address as
20500 W. Country Club Dr.
Suite 814
Aventura, Florida 33280

Clearly those are all the same address. And yet, S Boyle was threatened with legal action by for making an association between and Michael Rivero / WRH.

Here are the emails sent to S Boyle, threatening legal action for making what they claim are spurious connections and insinuations about having a relationship with Mike Rivero/

Bankindex Staff wrote:
Dear S. Boyle;

We would love to reply. Before we do, would you be kind enough to provide us with your real name. We are assuming 'S. Boyle' is your pen name. Also, we would like to know your title and position at IndyMedia, your telephone number and the name and telephone number of the Chief Editor at IndyMedia.

Several articles you have written mentioning, its managing partners and its associates contain totally erroneous information. You imply the wrong things about the organization its objectives and its affiliations.

You should know that your articles have been brought to the attention of our staff and our attorneys who are currently reviewing them for proper action. We are mystified by your motivations and wonder why you are setting up yourself and IndyMedia for a lawsuit.

We also fail to understand why a respectable organization like IndyMedia would allow its editorial staff to publish your bellicose, slanted and malicious disinformation.

The Bankindex Staff

CC/General Counsel


Bankindex Staff wrote:
Dear S. Boyle

Obviously you do not wish to come forward. We can get your information by contacting IndyMedia directly, that's not a problem.

We wish to make one thing clear. You will not smear, its Managing Partners or affiliates and get away with it.

Your "disinformation" essays imply links to "underground" movements and "militants" and we strongly resent that. You also stated Carol Adler's relationship to PMC4, LLC incorrectly, and PMC4, LLC does not own Dandelion.

We are a serious organization whose purpose is to MAKE MONEY! We work above the surface with pride and respect and our company is owned by some of the biggest names in the business.

If any of the essays you have written were to cause any harm to our company or harm the reputation of its Managing Partners you will be liable and we are going to go after YOU and IndyMedia!

As things are now, you are in extremely dangerous waters with the disinformation you have published.

I recommend a full retraction or the complete deletion of what you have written thus far.

The Bankindex Staff

CC/General Counsel


Bankindex Staff wrote:
S. Boyle,

We are not amateur thinkers. You have been going out of your way for a while now to imply that WRH has underground connections to "militant" groups....a claim that is completely frivolous as well as COMPLETELY GROUNDLESS. You further try to imply that Mr. Rivero works for us or that somehow we finance his operation. And that is exactly the point you are trying to make in your malicious disinformation pieces! By implication you are trying to say that we are part of the same alleged movement! You did not address such claims in your last reply, did you?

We are currently contacting the head of IndyMedia and the matter is being referred to the most prominent Law Firm in Miami.

Your irresponsible comments, poorly done research and maliciousness is going to land you and in a courtroom (without a doubt). And when your real name surfaces, and it will very soon, everyone is going to know who you are and what you have been doing. EVERYONE! Rest assured!

You see, we have nothing to hide. We are a legitimate business operation, but YOU are not!

Again, we strongly suggest that you find a way to remove your publications from the web and that you stop this nonsense. An apology is also in order.

The Staff @ Bankindex


Bankindex Staff wrote:
S. Boyle

We will be straight forward with you so there are no misunderstandings.

You have correctly identified that we are business minded. The interest in WRH stems from the fact that Mr. Rivero operates one of the most visited news sites in the WORLD! Let us repeat that again, ONE OF THE MOST VISITED NEWS SITES IN THE WORLD!

That makes him very, VERY appealing!

Now, for any deal to take place, an underlying corporate structure is necessary, you agree? Yes, good!

So, when you say this: "business deals do not constitute a complete or even partial agreement of philosophical viewpoints between the parties involved, only a financial transaction." You are correct!

But when you state:
"I believe to made myself quite clear that the importance of the PMC4 connection is the hypocritical anti-corporate stance of WRH and Michael Rivero." You are incorrect! Here's where your reasoning fails you. We doubt that Mr. Rivero is anti-corporate (too broad a term to have used) in the sense you mean it. The gentleman even owns his own corporation!

Moreover, it is not for us to decide what Mr.Rivero means, nor it is for you to do so. From the viewpoint, we are delighted to be able to interview Mr. Rivero and to have some of our links posted to his site (I am sure even CNN is). You see, the traffic that is derived from just one link on his site is enough to bring down most servers! In addition, did you ever think that perhaps no one else had the guts to do an interview with him? Why must you pursue the sinister angle? If Mr. Rivero�s site were without merit, the staggering statistics from visitors from all corners of the world would simply not exist!

There is no hypocrisy in anything we have done, and above all no tie or connection to any type of group or groups-nor will there be, ever!

When Mr. Rivero�s book is published, we will be glad to carry it in That is what is, a venue built and meant to CAPITALIZE on the UNEXPLOITED CURRENT MARKET CONDITIONS. I don�t suppose you are going to start writing about all the authors we are going to be publishing, are you?

The millions of people who visit regularly will appreciate Mr. Rivero�s book. They are his fans and they love him.

Our goal is to tap into the fantastically ENORMOUS market the Mainstream has created by virtue of how they do things. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing that angle. Our concept is as American as grandma's apple pie.

In closing, we respectfully ask that the very least, you correct your prior publications to show our point of view and to include your own statements clarifying what you meant.

Ideally, it would be much better if you stopped this nonsense and removed the entire piece, which we have been told, is possible.

Also, since you seem to have a great deal to say and to write about. You should consider sending in a manuscript to Dandelion Publications. Perhaps we can publish your book at!

The Bankindex Staff

CC/ Partners and Managers
General Counsel PMC4, LLC
Law Offices of xxxxx and xxxxx

Rivero's Threats - Censorship?

I had been posting at a messageboard for 5 years - and would often criticise Mike Rivero's connections to organised fascism, and the obvious sympathies he betrays for the fascist cause, its beliefs, attitudes, perspectives, etc.

Essentially, Mike Rivero acts as a conduit for far-right propaganda - without admitting it, of course. Subterfuge in the service of fascism. Nice?

Eventually Rivero sought to silence such criticism and exposure, writing to the moderator of the board.

Message from Mike Rivero of begins here - Note, he mistakes my user name as being "spankmaster":

------------ Original Message --------

Subject: Your website

From: "Michael Rivero"
Date: Sun, November 30, 2008 4:12 pm
To: trausti (at)


I have had my attention callked to a page at your site,

I understand and support your policy of non-censorship, but I would like
to call two points to your attention. I do not know how things are down in Peru but First Amendment protections for free speech here in the US stop at the point where malice is detectable in the writings, as it is here. Spabnk Master clearly has an ax to grind and he is using your blog as the sharpening stone.

In addition, providing private details such as my brother's previous address for the purposes of applying coercive pressure is defined as an act of terror under the USAPATRIOT act. Given the globalist tendancies in the courts these days, being in Peru might not shield you from being an accessory if Spank Master were to be charged by any of the people named in his numerous postings.

I do not engage in censorship at my own website, but I do exercise discretion, such as not allowing porno, and certainly I do not allow stories (or advertisers) I know to be fraudulent and misleading. It is part of the responsibility that goes with the power of running a blog.

Like it or not, we are the new mainstream, and we have to act like it.


Michael Rivero
What Really Happened

Interesting, huh?

Several points to be made about this:-

1) I posted a publically available source - a letter to a US State Attorney published on the internet - which contained a reference to a Mike Rivero of, and which gave his address. Source is here:

2) That address is THE SAME as one given for BANKINDEX.COM

3) had threatened one S BOYLE with legal action because BOYLE had years earlier written articles suggesting a connection between BANKINDEX.COM and Mike Rivero/

4) Rivero asserts the address is that of his brother, and suggests I had published the address with the purpose of "applying coercive pressure" and that this is an example of "an act of terror under the USAPATRIOT act." How could that possibly be so when I didn't know it was actually Rivero's address, let alone that of his brother? Furthermore, the source is a publically available one - it's on the internet.

5) Rivero says "....if Spank Master were to be charged by any of the people named in his numerous postings." Police issue charges - not individual citizens engaged in civil disputes over libel. Does Rivero know more than he's letting on? And what is this, if not A THREAT? Rivero exposes himself as being a hypocrite - he's AGAINST freedom of speech, and employs threats involving "The Patriot Act" and "terrorism"! LOL

6) Rivero says "I do not engage in censorship at my own website..." That's untrue. Rivero deletes certain articles from his website archives - for example, the article where he links to a Swedish Nazi march in support of Ernst Zundel.

7) Rivero says "I do exercise discretion". That's why he hosts articles by the racist, fascist Curt Maynard? That's why he links to Maynard? Thats why he had Maynard on the WRH radio show, without ever once mentioning Maynard's violent racism?

8) What IS the nature of the connection between Rivero and BANKINDEX.COM? And why do Rivero AND James Garib of seem so keen to avoid the connections between them being made public?

Socrates here- Much more can be found at the_last_name_left's blog and elsewhere on the internet. There is no justification for any "progressives" being in bed with this neo-nazi. Thanks to the_last_name_left and all others who have fought against the fake progressives corrupting the blogosphere.

Monday, May 25, 2009

Meta Lollapalooza- Right Circumscribing Left

{cross-posted from, a separate post on a diary titled, Is MajorFlaw a Paid Fake?}

For some reason, I find the shadowthief username fascinating. His posts at Booman Tribune and Daily Kos, from what I looked at, were very good, imho. But then one hears all this bad stuff about him, and the mysteries accumulate. Was he the same dude as the Blogging Curmudgeon? Was he some sort of concern troll, or as donkeytale said, some form of a double agent?

Then I start wondering about the Blogging Curmudgette. Heck, I wonder about a lot of this stuff from the past. It intrigues the fock out of me.

Anyway, I started out at this Marisacat thread. From reading some posts, it appears that shadowthief and the Blogging Curmudgeon were not the same person. I mean, ST and MCat were chatting away, and it seems to me as if Blogging Curmudgeon was a third person.

#91 Marisacat:
...At the time I thought both TBC and Curmudgette were running a bit of a scam to be taken in at WIngless and accorded some sort of rights.

Sorry to be rude, I was right.

One can also look at post #94, where MCat refers to both Curmudgeon and Curmudgette. It wasn't the way one would think she would phrase things, if shadowthief was Curmudgeon.

Uhm, perhaps we should look at the rest of post #91 which preceded the above excerpt.

The only thing that ever happened with Curmudgette as in thsi thread. Starts at about comment 29.

The Blogging Curmudge was careening around the netteries slamming me for my rather simple commentary on Msock. “Go home rest and stop hiding behind the kid. Get a grip. You are boring”

But he was not being consistent. He was coming here complaining about Msock, then emailing a commenter here that he would never post here for a list of reasons.

It was too looney.

So I posted that if Curmudgette agreed with TBC I would be happy to delink from the blogrool.

Not a big deal.

I left a comment at TBCurmudgeon site.

WHile there I noticed Curmudgette had a piece decrying blogging practices and linking to a thread at MBM that was inhabited with DavidBYron, Pyrrho and Supersoling. LOL Gettng their tiny rocks off slamming me. She also linked to a really stupid fp piece by Martin, his Paparazzi piece… slamming me (as well as others, mostly people who started MBM), using a blockquote of a smush of all sorts of comments here from all sorts of people and linking only to an old Sept 06 post here that had nothing to do with blogging or Blahgers…

I asked her that as I was the subject of the two posts she linked to, to please link to my site. Not to delve in and find a post of mine that related to such wide disparity of slams but to link to my site.

She refused saying the post was not about me. yes but she linked to two posts that were all in reference to me.

Basically, I must say that Marisacat comes across, in my humble opinion, as being legit, same with HRH. I'm kind of leaning towards agreeing with Marisacat's analysis, that Curmudgeon and Curmudgette had been working some sort of scam script. The only problem is that the Blogging Curmudgeon made some excellent posts at Booman's. I guess I then lean towards donkeytale's idea of a double agent. Perhaps bait and switch is a good phrase to apply also. But questions linger. Did a poster known as shadowthief have his username stolen and misused similar to how we've seen attempts done to a bunch of us, or was he also part of the act?

Don't Let the Paparazzi Get You Down

There are a lot of goodies to be found in that thread. It appears like Booman was being a whiner of epic proportions trying to cover up the fact that he is indeed a proprietor of some form of fake DKos refugee haven. He was upset that information he had put out about his girlfriend was revealed. He was all over Marisacat as discussed in the MCat thread.

It's as if the Kos Empire was at a point, where they wanted to establish strategies for shutting down sincere meta growing outside of their control.

Again supersoling shows up as usual. Who the hell is this guy, and why has he been in the middle of so much? Wormwood made a great observation a while back. Supersoling and shadowthief can be found on a lot of the same threads. But more than that, he noticed this.... colorsplash62 for supersoling and Shadowthief1962. That is definitely a strange coincidence.

Then what was up with LouisianaGirl and her porn is good for feminism attitude? Curmudgeon's responses were very funny. That's actually a fun thread to look through. It had a Dickensian type evolution with a bunch of layers to it.

The thing with the pole dancing debate actually triggered in my noggin the way Ben Burch has been some alleged feminist who supports the sex industry. Oh wow, if folks could get out of their Kos-centric Meta tunnels, there's a dude who is ripe to be looked into. He's a Mr. Libertarian with a bit too much influence in the "progressive" blogosphere. He also got busted harrassing Violet Blue, a well-known sex writer from California. But this is Digression City.

I'm simply trying to wrap up my Meta questions to the best of my abilities. It can be never ending. It can become mind boggling. Yet, many things can be figured out.

In short, I don't trust Curmudgette one bit. I don't buy into any of the stuff that went on between herself and Curmudgeon. I do believe in MarisaCat, though I admit I'm not one to read her blog too often.

I've a few more goodies to share with this post. I'm not a spammer or blog wrecker, and that's my explanation for some of these longer ones. If folks are into it, they can take from it what they want. If others don't care, they don't have to read it. So it's all just here, nice and tidy and non-disruptive to the rest of this forum.

Here's a good donkeytale post I'd like to copy and paste for prosperity.

Yes, I think vox misses the point when he says "every poster we loose is an important loss" (3.50 / 2)
is like sayin "every drunk who quits coming into this bar is an important loss."

Is it really important? For whom, the drunk or the barkeep?

For instance, I do not miss Sabrina, Howardx, Devore or Something. I know they are still lurking, but so what? They are gone. Does it matter? Of course not. Should I care? of course not. Should they come back? Of course, if they want to come back...

In some cases, leaving is best for the leaver. I would say definitely thats the case for Sabrina and Something, both of whom acted pretty deranged around 11/28/08 and thereafter.

And yet, vox doesn't think Jack caused or stoked their derangement with his little banning game? "There never really was a donkeytale, but multiple users using tha name across different blogs." Huh?

Vox. It. was. He wasnt threatened. First he changed noom's, erics and my userids, at least twice each. I was "cocksucker mcgee" and "Joseph K" remember? Would jack have done that if he was truly threatened? Of course not. He was jacking, making pffun, pyrrhiod.

He even let me back in once during the middle of it all, then rebanned me when I made a purposefully hateful comment toward Devore, Sabrina and Something in a fairleft dairy ironically enuff. See? I knew his game and I was playing him back. Wanted to see the reaction to validate in my mind. And he reacted just as I thot he would. Rebanned me. Matybe he thot he was teaching Eric, noom and I a lesson. But he went way overboard and caused some RL damage to Sabrina and Something and perhaps some others, too.

Let me repeat. It was only after Sabrina melted down, thinking some form of four headed imaginary monster with multiple userids named "donkeytale" was "stalking" her, possibly in RL, that jack finally called off the jam, as we say in the Roller Derby game. He realized that he was messing up some fragile emotional states....

But he sat back and allowed me to take all the heat. Same basically as he did with dave. Turned it into a game and let dave twist, altho Jack is shirley happy about the new users dave brought in with the "secret Kostapo" file and all the other attendent huey.

That's FL's point. Controversy is good, but the KKKrowd will always seek to contain and restrain it. They want "civil discussion." Of course, the KKKrowd is never civil when it rears its ugly head, but thats the part that is interesting to me...

Ok, just a few more things left to share. Hat tip for the next one ironically goes to shadowthief. Here is an extensive interview done by Markos Moulitsas with ABC News. {excerpt- concerning his banning of conspiracy theories and in particular "election integrity"}

MOULITSAS: In 2004, there was -- there were a lot of claims that there was fraud in Ohio. And for several months, people, you know, kept talking about how George Bush stole the election in Ohio. And after enough of that, I thought, 'OK, the evidence isn't there. This is being counterproductive at this point. If you have new evidence that would indicate that, then by all means, you know, share.' But the same discredited, so-called facts were regurgitated over and over again, and finally I got tired of that. I thought it was destructive. I also banned that type of diary.

And I think, in a case like that, what the problem wasn't necessarily people saying that the election was stolen. It's they were making claims that it was voter-box stealing, when in fact, I think a really strong case can be made that enough people were disenfranchised in Ohio that perhaps that was the margin of victory for George Bush. And instead of focusing on the, on the real problems in the electoral system, such as ballot-box access, having people put in felon voter rolls when they were not felons, not enough boxes in poor neighborhoods, in Democratic-leaning neighborhoods while out in the suburbs, there can be an in-and-out voting in 15 minutes.

Those are real problems. And people are still fixated on, you know, the boxes -- the black boxes were stolen. That, I thought, took the focus away. And then actually de-legitimize actual conversations on voter rights issues that actually, you know, voter right violations that happened in Ohio.

The rule is really is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That's all we're saying. And when people make accusations without proper supporting, it's really frowned upon in the Daily Kos community, because we want to be reality-based. We want to be a reality-based community. We don't want to be one that's just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. I think I'd rather leave that to the Republicans -- that's what they do.

Then why wasn't Larisa Alexandrovna banned? Why was I attacked by the KosKops for supporting what Kos said above? Why was MajorFlaw such a big supporter of Larisa in regards to my Prepostericity diaries concerning Brett Kimberlin and "election integrity" hoaxes. Of course electronic voting machines are no good. Yet, of course hoaxes have been circulating for years revolving around the black box theories.

Jeepers, the Michael Connell threatened by Karl Rove hoax just recently got pushed. Flaw can be tied to the fakes at Democratic Underground. He had a problem with Dave going after Sean Hannity and John McCain but had no difficulty in supporting hoaxes revolving around election fraud? Epluribus media is still on the DKos blogroll. That website has had plenty of "coverage" giving the Connell and other hoaxes credibility. It just doesn't add up. Same with all the attacks on me for being a so-called conspiracy theorist. If I'm that, then the ex-KosKop Kops are living in glass houses. On their blogroll at FSZ, one can easily get to BradBlog and RawStory. They also have all the DKos off-shoots lined up. It goes back to what donkeytale said in the link above.

...It was only after Sabrina melted down, thinking some form of four headed imaginary monster with multiple userids named "donkeytale" was "stalking" her, possibly in RL, that jack finally called off the jam, as we say in the Roller Derby game. He realized that he was messing up some fragile emotional states....

But he sat back and allowed me to take all the heat. Same basically as he did with dave. Turned it into a game and let dave twist, altho Jack is shirley happy about the new users dave brought in with the "secret Kostapo" file and all the other attendent huey.

That's FL's point. Controversy is good, but the KKKrowd will always seek to contain and restrain it. They want "civil discussion." Of course, the KKKrowd is never civil when it rears its ugly head, but thats the part that is interesting to me...

{emphasis mine}

Mendacity, hypocrisy, honey pots, same as it ever was, concern trolls, rabbit holes......

I'll wrap up this meta lollapalooza with some MSOC stuff. From the FSZ link, here is an excerpt from Fairleft.

fairleft, you're a lying hypocritical douchebag.

And yet... here you still are -- not banned.
Just another lying, hypocritical douchebag.

Life in the big blogosphere.

by: Maryscott O'Connor

MSOC's unprovoked trash mouth attacks drive down discussion and contributions at her site because a lot of whimpy, gentle, or just plain normal self-respecting folks find such attacks rude and abusive and don't want to subject themselves to them. And when the attacks are coming from the site owner, participants who say nothing indicate they're 'okay with' potty mouth abuse and baiting of people with incorrect opinions (which differs from potty mouth self-expression, which people need to get over themselves about). Authoritarian types may be attracted to the protective, conformist cocoon of a righteously and abusively led blog, but 'normies' will just move along (especially if they don't have axes to grind). Traffic down.

But there are many ways . . . and it can happen here, even at fsz! Today donkeytale (emphasis added), discusses the non-reaction of many at fsz to Jack's crazed banning of multiple users last Nov. 28:

There was no WMD. Jack acted like Bush, abused his powers one night when he was high or pissed off or wtf. Fine.

The problem is, you all fell for it, willfully. Nobody wants to piss off the Commander-in-Chief even on a third-rate blog.

Why? Isn't this the "left?" Don't answer. I already know that it isn't.

Yup, here too we live within the fear and groupthink of the whiteysphere, as indicated by the by-and-large whimpy reaction to Jack's drug-addled banning spasm. Suddenly he morphed into the boss, not just that cheery undergrad who happened to plop into blog admin. And many reacted instinctively....

I got the same treatment from MSOC. Then when I returned fire more efficiently than she ever could have imagined, she perma-banned my arse and reported me to the FBI for cyberstalking. That was after it seems I had the gall to rummage through her HuffingtonPost comments and see that she doesn't support taxing the rich. That was after I had shown just like Fairleft did that certain fight clubs are rigged. That was after I had shown as Marisacat had, that if public personalities are gonna bring their family and issues into the public sphere, such folks cannot complain when others use their free speech rights to discuss such self-wallowing meanderings.

The following is from a right winger, that I in no way support ideologically speaking. Yet, this person has hit the spot in regards to explaining the MSOC phenomenon. I don't agree with his political conclusions. I agree with how he explains how MSOC is all about MSOC and her misfortunes.

Vietnam Psychosis

This also takes us back to the Booman overreaction to folks finding out who his girlfriend is. I believe that was just a ploy to shut down the growing dissent centering around the awareness that the so-called left blogs are not so leftish. Markos Moulitsas is a big fan of the CIA. That is not left wing. Democratic Underground is neither democratic nor underground. True lefties do not allow one-sided hate speech as seen at these venues. True lefties do not cozy up with "progressive moderates" like KarmaStench nor producers from Fox News {AngryRich?}. In short, true lefties, peaceniks, and intellectuals are not wanted at the political dinner table.

Here's another strange thingie. Maryscott and other Kossacks used to hang out at the right wing website named Red State. That one has been characterised as being a right wing version of Daily Kos.

Hmmm. Armando was on this thread too. Fancy that.

Maryscott O'Connor in 2005:

Truthfully, I don't come here. Ever. I came when it first opened, but there were no conservatives here -- just curious Kossacks.

I don't have enough time in the day to spend any part of it on a website that espouses virtually everything that I loathe in politics and social issues.

But oh boy did she ever post a bunch there. And if what she wrote above is true, then what's up with there having been a lot of Kossacks dominating a right wing website?

Perhaps the answer to that one is with Joshua Trevino? He was a co-founder of that forum. To really take this post full circle, I stumbled across a piece done on Mr. Trevino exhibiting more curious ties between right and so-called left wing bloggers.

Interview: Josh Trevino, Online Integrity


1) Having seen what happened to the families of Erick Erickson and Ben Domenech when the online left went after each -- and operating on the assumption that similar things had happened to leftists -- I conceived of OI while on business travel in the last week of April.

2) I floated the concept to Mike Krempasky [and] Erick Erickson [of RedState], Armando and Mcjoan [of Daily Kos], and received their unanimous support for a nonpartisan, nonideological code of practice....

4) Matt Stoller [of MyDD], one of the initial invitees, asked if he could share the concept with others. I readily agreed -- my assumption was that he would share it with his colleagues in the online left, and I wanted this to happen, as I strongly felt that absent that milieu, this effort would be crippled. I was right: He posted it to a Google Groups [distribution] list that he runs called Townhouse. It must be emphasized that Townhouse is, by all appearances, the internal brain trust of the big-time online left. I believe Garance Franke-Ruta of [Tapped] was once on it; and Maryscott O'Conner of was once on it (more on her shortly)....

It's really sad what happened to MSOC and her life. She'd probably be happy to hear of someone feeling sorry for herself. Though she does have her small group of syncophants eating up her every sorrow with a cold glass of milk. She basically got in over her head. She is an admitted college dropout. She is virtually unreadable due to all the cap locks and cursing. She is incompetent at running a fair ship. She has supported too many right wingers and "progressive moderates" such as and Phil. I. Stine {AngryRich?} and Karmafish. She has been too easily manipulated and made the fool by KosKoppers like ThereIsNoSpoon, Armando, Eugene, and also by apparently insidious forces such as Curmudgette. And what's up with the poster named Nonpartisan? Isn't the point to be partisan and get stuff done on behalf of social and environmental justice? I advised her to dump the fake progressives dominating her forum. At that point, I hadn't been too aware of her complete background, of how she had been the wrong person at the right time to build up the counter-Kos following.

Well, maybe she can get back into the acting field. She claims to be a natural at acting and is proud of her blue eyes. Is she also proud of being semi-nude in Lee Stranahan's film? This is her, correct? That looks like the same Maryscott O'Connor from the cast photo.