This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Sunday, January 31, 2010

Not Believable

Intrepid reporters should investigate everyone who is taking advantage of mentally ill people. Too many of them are being manipulated by quack psychologists, fake bloggers, and insidious publishers. The satanic panic lives on via the internet. This is enabling shady therapists and the others to make a buck off of others' pain. This is beyond disgusting. It is fraud and perhaps criminal.

A lot of info can be gleaned through looking into Neil Brick's Stop Mind Control and Ritual Abuse Today group. That's how I learned about Dr. Lowell Routley's involvement. From this link, I have picked up some more names and fake stories to check out. Here are a few of my finds. Later on I will touch on a bit more about the crapola coming out of Jeff Wells and his disinfo website called Rigorous Intuition. By the way, get your credit cards ready, and you can order up some cd's from these conference speakers!

Let's first take a quick looksie at Neil Brick.

The Brickster


According to Neil, he is a survivor of a Masonic cult tied to MKULTRA. He says he was a programmed assassin. Totally unbelievable. So why is Dr. Routley attending his conferences? Here you can read one of Neil's prolific spam attacks in the comment section. That thread was started by Doug Mesner, in which he gave an inside view of a Brick conference on MKULTRA mind control and satanic ritual abuse cults.


Anne A Johnson Davis


Anne claims to have come from a satanic ritual cult. Her story has been plugged a lot, because it appeared to have been accompanied with confessions made by her parents. She grew up in Utah. Her story was covered by The Deseret News. An interview of her can be found here at Neil's website. As in all the other cases I've looked into with an open mind, these allegations have been made based on so-called recovered memories. Give me a fricken break.

As usual, once one searches past the garbage links, the truth appears in needle nuggets mostly drowned out by the disproportionale noise to signal ratio haystack. Anne's parents did confess to child abuse. However, there was no satanic ritual abuse involved. One can learn that through reading here and here.


Hal Pepinsky


At this link, one can listen as Hal "reflects on the experience of learning from and teaching with ra/mc survivors and advocates from 1993 until his retirement from criminal justice at Indiana University this past spring, including progress in and around SMART conferences since 1998 in building popular recognition of the reality of ra/mc, and progress in the healing of survivors he has known."

There we also find out that, "Hal is on the board of directors of the North American Freedom Foundation (NAFF)."

Hal's a true believer! We'll learn more about the NAFF later on in this blog entry, when we yet again focus in on an internet disinformation writer named Jeff Wells.


deJoly LaBrier


I'm not sure why deJoly's first name isn't capitalised. Those types of questions emerge, once one figures out that this whole thing about MKULTRA-SRA is a scam. Well not for victims like deJoly. She's been victimised twice like all the others by opportunistic quacks. These are child abuse victims with multiple personality disorder who have been sucked into a modern form of satanic panic.

deJoly alleges to have been a victim of a military sex ring. She spoke at Brick's 2001 conference held in Windsor Locks, Connecticut. Here are some excerpts.


Two years ago or so, I was told about a therapist in Chattanooga, and I did not go. Hal Pepinsky was the one who referred me to her. I kind of let that go, and last year I came and gave a presentation and somebody again, a different person, Kathleen Sullivan, said, “Oh I know a good therapist in Chattanooga.” It happened to be the same person, but my brain went this way on both of them. But I want to thank both of them for giving me that information because now I’m back in therapy and I’m going to that person and she’s an excellent therapist....

I myself was born on October 20, 1948, at China Lake Naval Weapons Station in California. That’s where the Navy and the Marines do all kinds of flight and radar testing, trying to get under the radar of other country’s. But they also do other things there. They bring in, under the use of drugs, they bring in soldiers from other countries, in the dead of night, they bring them in, and they put them in front of a panel of airplanes – you know, their deck. They tell them to look at it and find what’s wrong because they want to do an exact simulation of another country’s airline/airplanes. And then, before the person is awake, they take them back to their country and they never know that they’ve been there. So I know that these things happen, but over the course of years, it’s been affirmed to me over and over again, so it’s hard to deny.

I have many alters who have unraveled a story for me and filled in the blank spaces in much of my life....

My nighttime life was filled with bizarre and inhuman acts of evil. I allege that both of my parents were involved at high levels in a cult with satanic overtones, that I believe was a cover for military activities that included brainwashing, a sex ring, and covert movement of information through me to Germany. I allege that most of these activities included murdering and torturing both children and adults and took place while I was either drugged or dissociated into another personality. And they took place from the time I was an infant to the time I was about thirteen, when I had a baby. I’ll go into that a little bit later.

I want to read you a definition of a sex ring because a lot of people say that they were never involved in a sex ring, but I said I was involved in a sex ring before I realized that I was. You know, that there was really a definition. And I mentioned it yesterday because some people were questioning that. Back in 1988, when I started doing this, I found a document, that I didn’t know existed. But a therapist person, not my therapist, but another one, gave me this document. It’s about – there are two of them about an inch and a half thick. They were put out in 1988 from the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and they are about treatment, detection and treatment of children who have been abused, and one of the things that they talk about is sex rings....

I did a lot of work, and in my book, I talk about those experiences of recovering memories, and the kind of therapies that I did that allowed me to get some of them....




Jeff Wells and Rigorous Intuition

A whole industry has grown out of this nonsense. Jeff Wells is the most famous blogger to have astroturfed this schtuff as being true. If not for him, perhaps Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake would still be alive. I honestly don't know how that person sleeps at night.

In 2005, he interviewed someone named Kathleen Sullivan.
(images from Wells' website)

part one


part two


part 3


part four



There's some very crazy material to be read at those links. Beyond the beyond kind of kooky. Yet, Wells acts likes it's all true. What a guy. Not.

Check it out for yourself if interested. I'm pretty much at the saturation point myself. In part three, Wells asked Sullivan, "Did you ever observe "shape-shifting" or other paranormal phenomena at occult rites?" And this is the same guy who discourages any talk of 9/11 controlled demolition at his conspiracy theory website. I am not into 9/11 conspiracy theory. When a dude like this talks of inter-dimensional entities and shape-shifting yet downplays talk of controlled demolition of the Twin Towers, let me put it this way; If it turns out this guy Jeff Wells is an inside job, then you can bet controlled demolition is what might have brought down those buildings. I realise that's all conjecture, and I probably just sounded like a kook myself. So please disregard those last sentences. I was just trying to point out the inorganic hypocrisy Wells quite often puts on display.


Kathleen's "book" is titled Unshackled: A Survivor's Story of Mind Control. It was published by Dandelion. Hmmm. In a previous blog entry, I wrote of a strange connection between another disinfo internet personality named Michael Rivero and that specific publisher. There is a strong relationship between Dandelion Books and a company named PMC4 LLC.. Michael Rivero can be contacted through the same address of PMC4 LLC.. HMMMM.


THE NORTH AMERICAN FREEDOM FOUNDATION
link







A Bit More on Dr. Lowell Routley
Dr. Lowell Routley speaks at 2009 ICSA Conference in Geneva(pdf)

The other day I sent an email to a local Iowan news station informing them of Routley's involvement with Neil Brick's form of satanic panic hysteria. This network of grifters are piling on the damage to mentally ill people, folks who have it tough enough in life as it is. We'll see if an intrepid reporter does something with that information. I won't be holding my breath.

(excerpt)

At the 2009 ICSA international conference, Dr. Routley presented a paper entitled: RESTORING THE LOST SELF: FINDING ANSWERS TO HEALING FROM TRAUMATIC SOCIALIZATION AND MIND CONTROL IN TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY NEUROCOGNITIVE RESEARCH.

Within his Abstract, Routley stated: ...

The fourth context I call Human Engineering abuse which is an assault on one’s humanity. In this context, children are specifically conditioned to perform according to contracted purposes which lack any sense of personal, social, or spiritual purpose other than the crass greed from the provider. Sophisticated conditioning required by this context involves experts from a range of scientific disciplines. These participating scientists are of the mindset that “the end justifies the means.” A comment read years ago stated, “Where there is torture, there is a doctor.” The war on terrorism has spotlighted the US Military’s interrogation practices that keep medical professionals on hand. Over the years, adult survivors of Context 2 trauma would report of the family doctor’s repairing injuries obviously from familial physical or sexual abuse, then extorted the parents to provide the child as a research subject or they would be exposed to the community. The child became a “lab rat” in the name of science and unbeknownst to most parents, a conditioned “slave” to be trafficked to whatever the contracted end. This trauma left the child most devoid of hope and truly alien, disconnected to humanity....




Wrapping This Up

One interesting thing I have noticed at the Rigorous Intuition forum has been that a bunch of members are deeply disappointed in Rick Ross, an expert on cults. They are upset that he doesn't cover MKULTRA and government sponsored satanic ritual abuse. He doesn't do so, because the man lives in reality.

I'll end this entry by sharing with you the good readers a decent news documentary which covered the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leader before being sent to prison for child abuse, Warren Jeffs. Now that's a real cult. I'd also like to mention that we have a complete state in Utah dominated by a cult. Perhaps we can refer to them as the mainstream Church of LDS, i.e. the Mormons. Granted they aren't as fried as the FLDS, but folks are encouraged to investigate the Mormons in general. It's not a pretty picture.

In 2007, Warren Jeffs was sentenced to a ten year prison term for being an accomplice to the rape of a minor.

Polygamist 'prophet' to serve at least 10 years in prison



MSNBC 8/1/2008















45 comments:

Doug Mesner said...

I think you may find my latest interesting: http://www.process.org/discept/2010/02/08/dr-colin-a-ross-psychiatry-the-supernatural-and-malpractice-most-foul/
thanks for the good work...

socrates said...

Hi Doug, thanks for making an appearance.

I'll put that link in html for easier reader access. (People can right click for links to pop up in a new window. Also, I am doing this more often as I age a bit, you can enlarge text size through the view menu.)

Dr. Colin A. Ross: Psychiatry, the Supernatural, and Malpractice Most Foul

Great minds think alike. p:>

I've been wondering about this Colin Ross dude. I also see Roseanne Barr is now involved. Every time I think I'm done with this topic, something new pops up.

I've got to tell you, your piece on the mind control conference was pure brilliance. I encourage all who haven't read it yet to do so. You can get there through the link mentioned in this blog entry. Then at the end, a second link to part 2 will take you to Doug's website.

Doug, you might want to sign up at Rick Ross' forum and share your work. While the forum tends to cover mostly actual real cults, Rick has put together a lot of entries concerning the satanic panic on his main domain section.

I don't understand how these therapists keep getting away with this. It seems like maybe the only way to stop it would be through legislation. Otherwise, unless the victims realise they are being bamboozled, there is not going to be enough lawsuits generated to discourage this activity.

There have been a few I noticed. It also seems like Corydon Hammond got out of the business at the right time. He's the one who was plugging Nazi doctors being heavily involved. Fricken paging Dr. Green. Michael Moore or someone (us?) should make a documentary on this and get the word out. I don't think there's as much awareness of this bullcrap as there should be. People tend to think of it as, oh there's that wacky internet for you. Thanks again. Take it easy.

socrates said...

Doug, I read your article and the transcript from your interview with one of Colin Ross' victims. Superb. I wrote to an Iowa news station. I wrote to one reporter who covered the Susan Polk case. I have never had much luck getting such people to take interest in my finds. It's discouraging. A guy like Colin Ross should be in prison, if what that lady said is the truth. And I don't doubt it. Maybe you or someone could get through to Roseanne Barr and show her what's really going on. Then we'd have a serious ally in the fight to get these shitheads shut down. Thanks again. Incredibly good work by yourself.

Doug Mesner said...

You're in Boston? Do you have a personal contact for me?

socrates said...

Hi Doug,

If I register at your website, will you be able to see my email address?

I've got some ideas for research. Like I just noticed one survey from maybe 15 years ago showed that 16 therapists were responsible for nearly all of the claims of sra being made. It'd be nice to figure out how extensive this is, and to figure out exactly which doctors need to be exposed and ostracised.

Of course, none of this is really brand new news. So since it's still going on, I'm thinking wtf.

Maybe we could try to get a local station to cover this. You did that undercover thing, now you've got that interview, and anything else you've figured out. I have the internet aspect in regards to Andy Stephenson and this guy Jeff Wells.

Or maybe if we're gonna try to join forces a bit, we should strategise in private.

Part of me is ambitious. I won't lie. I've been wasting a bunch of years on the net, nothing really came of it. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind getting something done with no regard for any personal reward. I mean, this stuff is making me sick to my stomach.

I guess it'd be easy enough to start listing the therapists we know are involved. Neil Brick has provided somewhat of a list. The thing about Hammond is incredible, this Dr. Green thingie. Plus, it'd be nice to figure out if these dudes actually believe in what they're doing. I'm finding that hard to believe. But then again, it's impossible to read minds. Then Hammond just all of a sudden got out of the business? Doesn't sound like a true believer to me. Sounds like he could smell the inevitability of lawsuits.

Felix Polk. Now there's no way he could have believed what he said about his son Adam. I guess I'm just rambling at this point. I don't like these people.

Doug Mesner said...

let's definitely chat. yes - if you register on process, i'll get your email address...

socrates said...

I signed up as prepostericity. I also tracked down what appears to be your email address and sent you an email from a different account. Take it easy. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

For the last fifteen year and more as a criminologist, I have gotten to know survivors, sifted evidence, and believe that believe that it is the exceptional community of any size that does not have at least one active, occasionally homicidal cult. Google me or visit pepinsky.blogspot.com for further details.
If you really knew survivors and had looked at physical and other corroborative evidence they offer, I don't think you could do this blanket job of discrediting.
The SMART site is the most complete reference site I know, reliable too. Check also ritualabusetorture.org, to see that the UN Commission on the Status of Women has recognized ritual abuse as a globally significant case of human trafficking. love and peace--Hal Pepinsky (pepinsky@indiana.edu)

socrates said...

For the last fifteen year and more as a criminologist, I have gotten to know survivors, sifted evidence, and believe that believe that it is the exceptional community of any size that does not have at least one active, occasionally homicidal cult.

No matter how many times I read that, it still doesn't make any sense.

If you really knew survivors and had looked at physical and other corroborative evidence they offer, I don't think you could do this blanket job of discrediting. The SMART site is the most complete reference site I know, reliable too.

Is there anything you'll ever admit is whacked about this? Explain Corydon Hammond. Explain Colin Ross.

If you're truly who you purport to be, you've been making a good buck off of this. You're hardly in a position at this point in your life to admit that the whole thing's been a lie.

One study showed that at one point 16 therapists were responsible for the vast bulk of all these so-called reports of satanic ritual abuse. Most therapists reported no cases. Some reported one or two. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

People can feel free to check out the other diaries I wrote on this blog concerning this topic and to seek out the truth for themselves. I'm not afraid to let the reader decide.

Anonymous said...

I make no bucks, nor did my speakers. Basically, for reasons I can only guess, you are sending smoke for never knowing diddly about ritual abuse. Check ritualabuse.us for easy reference to a recent survey indicating most therapists had encountered a case of ritual abuse.
There's nothing that hurts victims of sexual violence and all like being dismissed. What's your point? l&p hal (pepinsky@indiana.edu , pepinsky.blogspot.com

socrates said...

I don't believe you're not making a buck off of this scam. No one can be this stupid to believe such a hoax. No books? You don't have any sra/mc clients? You receive no income at all related to this topic?

You're involved with brainwashing likely victims of child abuse into believing they have recovered memories of being in government sponsored cults. You manipulate mentally ill people, period. Why nothing to say about Corydon Hammond and Colin Ross? Ever hear of the Greenbaum Speech you creep? EXPLAIN YOURSELF OR GO AWAY! START MAKING SOME SENSE AND WRITE LIKE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE OR GO AWAY. MAYBE JUST GO AWAY ANYWAY. I DON'T SUFFER FOOLS ANYMORE.

Why don't you provide the link to your claims? You're either insane or a con artist. Maybe both?

Tell us all the therapists you know who are handling the bulk of the cases.

We're not talking about therapists coming across one case. That they only come across one should tell you something. Maybe you are not an idiot and are an asshole.

I can't even believe this is Hal. Just look at the first post he wrote. Not very academic. Written like an eigth grader. This one wasn't much better.

Maybe you took engineering at the Junior College instead of Liberal Arts?

Lowell Routley is a douche. So are you. Maybe Satan can take that phony love and peace you spew (who writes love and peace as l&p?), and shove it where the moon don't shine. Loser.

Anonymous said...

Hey mate,

Hal sounds legit. You don't. Sounds like you are manipulating people with your harsh words and attacks. Satan is a loser. Love and peace are real. They might help you. Alex

socrates said...

If you say so anonymous, lol.

Hal said: Check ritualabuse.us for easy reference to a recent survey indicating most therapists had encountered a case of ritual abuse.

If it's so easy to find this survey, why doesn't Hal provide the link?

The only surveys I see mentioned there are on-line ones. He needs to write up exactly what the study was, who conducted it, and what were the results.

The only dependable study I have found was the 1991 one done by Bottoms, Shaver, & Goodman. 2,709 certified shrinks responded. RitualAbuse.US says that 70% of them denied seeing any cases. Ha!!! They deny it? Why would they lie?

1,908 saw no one suffering the delusions. 785 reported seeing one or two cases. 16 of them each reported seeing over a hundred cases. This is a scam, just like McMartin, Fells Acres, the Amanda Knox conviction, Colin Ross, Lowell Routley, Corydon Hammond and much more. Embrace SATAN!!!!! Just kidding you deluded creeps.

Child abuse is real. The Church scandal was real. There is human trafficking, etc. There are real cults not affiliated with the government that abuse people. You guys make a mockery out of real issues. Not to mention you're preying on mentally ill people in pursuit of a buck. How do Pepinsky and the others sleep at night?

Anonymous said...

Socrates,
Interesting how you play with numbers and words. 70% stated they didn't see any cases, you phrase it as denied. 30% did. Doing the math 801 did see cases of ritual abuse. They are members of the American Psychological Association, not shrinks. Found a Bottoms study. In 2,292 cases of ritual abuse, the perpetrators in 30% of the child cases confessed to abusing one or more children and perpetrators in 15% of adult cases confessed to perpetrating also. Doesn't sound like delusions to me. No one makes money helping abused people. They have no money.
Checked out your web page. You believe chemtrails exist. Heard that was the biggest conspiracy theory out there. You write about the HAARP program and its connection to "mad science." Sounds like another conspiracy theory.

socrates said...

Hey Troll-breath, post again like that last one, and it will be deleted as soon as I see it. Outright lies are not allowed here. Troll spam is not allowed.

I didn't phrase the historic study done as saying 70% "denied" seeing any of these brainwashed mentally ill. RitualAbuse.US did. So quit your lying.


If it weren't for approximately 16 therapists, satanic ritual abuse/mind control crap would be a non-issue. You satanic panic losers are finished. Few buy into it. Only mentally ill, low-iq, and the scumbags who profit off of it believe such easily debunked rubbish. It's not rocket science to figure out the truth about scumbags like Colin Ross and Corydon Hammond. Or Jeff Wells for that matter.

You provide no link for the other study. No one is denying there aren't some big and dangerous cults, that child abuse is too real, Church scandals, etc.. Have you ever heard of the state of Utah? That's where a lot of sick brainwashing takes place. There's your government sponsored cult. They're called The -Morons- Mormons. There are Larouchian cults. Scientology. A guy like Rick Ross has compiled a lot of news clippings on true stories, not the fiction you clowns are peddling. Explain Corydon Hammond. Better yet, just go away. Oooh, I called psychologists shrinks. How satanic of me.

KathleenASullivan said...

Hello, “Socrates”:
I do not understand your - and Doug's – obsessive attempts to lash out at, and demonize, anyone who tries to expose the existence and prevalence of occult crime.
In reality, Neil Brick is a quality human being. Despite his history as a survivor of Extreme Abuse, he is way ahead of both of you in his moral and ethical development.
Neil unselfishly volunteers his energy, time and money to help generate public support for fellow survivors, so they can heal and recover more effectively. Instead of mentally manipulating them, he encourages them to think for themselves, do their own research, and come to their own conclusions.
Anyone with a decent IQ can obtain a higher education. That’s easy in comparison to developing emotional intelligence, empathy, compassion, caring, love, gentleness, and respect towards those who are disrespectful and abusive. For over a decade, Hal Pepinsky has worked hard to help me and other rage-based survivors to develop empathy, love, and compassion towards former enemies – at no cost to us.
Our focus is on healing, and generating resources and emotional support for fellow survivors. We are not Nazi stormtroopers; we do not carry torches and pitchforks. It seems to me that those who suffer from "satanic panic" fear being prosecuted for crimes perpetrated under the guise of Satanism.
Crime is crime; if it’s being committed in the guise of any religion, it should be prosecuted. Whenever we deter others from discovering and prosecuting such crimes and human rights violations, we act to cover-up those crimes. And whenever we try to cover-up the existence and prevalence of crimes committed by leaders and fellow practitioners of our religion – Satanist or Christian or anything in-between - we are, at the very least, violating serious societal ethical and moral codes. That is flat-out wrong.
As NAFF president, I have worked to educate the public so that it does not indiscriminately attack all Satanists, Pagans, Luciferians, etc. for crimes committed by the few; and so that it does not attack all CIA Directors, officers, employees, and contractors for crimes committed by the few.
However, I believe that any individuals who use religious buildings and positions and resources - and intelligence and military buildings and positions and resources – to commit crimes and human rights violations – should be discovered and prosecuted.
I believe that you and Doug Mesner have the intelligence to know the difference religious practices and occult crime. I believe that you are choosing to promote disinformation that consequently is used by perpetrators to hide their criminal activities. Even if that is not your direct intention, you will eventually have to face the consequences of your negative behaviors and choices.
I will continue to pray for both of you that in this life or the next, you will each have the lovely opportunity to enjoy the fullness of the human experience of love, joy, peace and forgiveness. Until that moment occurs, both of you have my full and unconditional forgiveness for the harm you have done in the past, and may do in the future, to me and my loved ones - deliberately and/or inadvertently.
I wish you peace.
Kathleen Sullivan
http://naffoundation.org

socrates said...

Kathleen, this is what you need to do. You have to get yourself away from this cult you are now a leading member of. You are deluded, clearly mentally ill. Thus my heart goes out to you.

Maybe you'll be the one to blow the lid off of this farce. First, you'll need to find a real therapist. You'll have to let it all out.

Maybe you can answer a few questions, and we'll take it from there.

How old were you when you were abused?

Please name as many people as you can. Did the cult have a name? Were you born into this? Your dad was in the CIA or military? Please cough up your proof.

When did you become aware that you were an mkultra manchurian candidate? Are we talking repressed memories that you recovered? When did this happen? What was the name of your "therapist" who aided you in recovering memories?

You have inspired me to write another blog entry. Thanks for this. I was starting to feel a blogging rut coming on.

I have googled a bit and have seen some of the crazier shite you have said. You were an assassin. You say you're sure Michael Jackson was an mkultra sex slave.

You are clearly deranged. Maybe you can fight your way out of this mind control grip "they" have placed on yourself. You need to be deprogrammed. These fockers are always on the look out to brainwash other mentally ill patients. Have you seen the transcript of Doug's interview with one of Colin Ross' ex-patients?

Brice Taylor was Bob Hope's sex slave? I'm hoping Roseanne snaps out of it and saves people like yourself. You've been victimised twice. I guess you were a victim of pedophilia. Then some therapist helped you "recover" memories of being an mkultra assassin. Ever hear of Felix Polk? He was one of those shady therapists. He made up stuff about his son. He focked with his wife Susan's head. What about the McMartin Preschool trial? Ever hear of Gerald Amirault? He spent many years in prison due to the type of craziness that you spew. I think part of the problem is that once you realise you've been focked with by these quacks, you'll realise you have become part and parcel of something very destructive and grotesque. There's still time for you to make this right Kathleen. You believe you are a hero. If you become aware of the truth, you will have to forgive yourself for having been a villian. It's time for you to face your demons, no pun intended.

Anonymous said...

"In part three, Wells asked Sullivan, "Did you ever observe "shape-shifting" or other paranormal phenomena at occult rites?" And this is the same guy who discourages any talk of 9/11 controlled demolition at his conspiracy theory website."

That is the interesting thing about Rigorous Intuition. All subjects are fair there except talk of controlled demolition. Can't blame readers for asking why they would make that distinction? Rigorous Intuition, Rense.com, Alex Jones are all disinfo in my belief creating whirlpools of insanity around 9/11 where none had been before. The next obvious question is why are they creating all of this chaff around 9/11?

socrates said...

It doesn't make any sense at all. Kathleen Sullivan's saying her Dad and his CIA buddies raised her to be an MKULTRA assassin. Yet in the same interview, Jeff Wells was talking up nonsense about aliens, or whatever he was on about. He didn't get her father's name or pull any signs of proof out of her. Why should anyone believe Jeff Wells is anything but a disinfo dispenser?

And the idea of controlled demolition is a problem? He's the one who pimped the easily debunked idea that Neil Bush was running security at the World Trade Center. Not adding up.

I'm not into 9/11 conspiracy theory. Nonetheless, I can see how it has been tied into a tinfoil by association scam. (The National Wingnut Appreciation Day thread will give newbies and lurkers some leads into figuring out how disinfo creeps have turned 9/11 conspiracy theory into antisemitism.)

I hate to censor. But I'm not into reading troll spam. I let one stay above. Someone mentioned my blogging on 'chemtrails'. I can't hide from it. I'm not even ashamed of it. One can go to the link in my profile and then to the top section and see that I make a very strong case that not all contrails are contrails. But that has nothing to do with this thread.

For some reason I draw out the trolls. It began after I first blogged alongside someone named the_last_name_left. He doesn't believe in 'chemtrails' or '9/11 Truth'. That doesn't bother me. I like his style. I like what he has come up with concerning Rivero, Rense, Alex Jones, and many others.

Tinoire said we are the same person. Wells and Arcadia Ego did also. The neonazis at the WRH Unofficial forum did too. You woouldn't believe how many people I have been accused of being. Or maybe you are aware of it. Some of it is still available, if one knows where to look. I also saved some stuff that is now only available through my other blog.

I have lost patience for trolls. Marcuse said we need to be intolerant of tolerance, otherwise the status quo will rule. I am not allowed to post at Rigorous Intuition and Progressive Independent. Why should their kinds of trolls be allowed to post here?

I've a new entry up concerning Kathleen Sullivan. A lot of my questions were answered, though I wouldn't mind knowing her Dad's full name and where he worked, any info on him available through the net. She has obviously been victimised by the disinfo crowd. I want to know who her therapist was who led her into having such delusions.

The RI crowd is desperate. They know their scam has been uncovered. It is one which is deeply tied to the kind of satanic panic crap I recently became interested in.

It is very easy to link RI and PI to Michael Rivero. Thus, it is very easy to tie them to being associated with Holocaust deniers, kooky 9/11 theories, and all sorts of nonsense.

Originally I wasn't allowed to post at RI before making even one post. It's probably because myself and TLNL were very effective in blogging on Rivero. Chemtrails, schemtrails. That topic has become completely turned into a carnival act on the web. There is no way to figure it out through the net. I think my website did a good job. Few and far between did what I did.

As for the right woos left stuff, that is something exponentially more difficult for the disinfo fockers to 'debunk'. Same goes with this satanic panic stuff. There's no way for disinfo people to counteract the truth, as shown even in just this one thread.

Only 16 out of over 2000 therapists saw more than two patients claiming sra-mc ritual abuse. Those 16 saw over 100 cases. We know a handful of names through lawsuits and some web pages. 16!

As for the Jooish global conspiracy spin, we have figured out the main players. Those have been Alex Jones, Michael Rivero, and Jeff Rense with the kingpins being Willis Carto and Lyndon LaRouche.

Anonymous said...

The far-right wingosphere and those around it are spreading a non-stop stream of disinfo about 9/11 and Satanic Panic. Rigorous Intuition with all of its weirdness is not exactly the place you would expect to find abuse survivors chatting it up while warning each other of "triggering" material each time they post it. When you consider it was the far right in power positions that "dropped the ball" on 9/11 and let Al-Qaeda in through the backdoor it all starts to really make sense what all of the the noise is about.

socrates said...

Good points. It's definitely a bizarre situation.

The satanic panic is obvious rubbish. One can look into the McMartin story or the Amirault one and many others and see that innocent people went to jail. I admit I have deleted a post from another anonymous. He or she was saying Gerald was found guilty, that no victim ever recanted. He said tunnels were found at the McMartin Preschool. There's no way to dialogue with such people.

Now concerning Wells' RI, we can easily tie that forum and blog to kooky, internet personalities like Andy Stephenson, Michael Rivero, and then many more including a substantial chunk of the zeitgeist. But how does one explain Hal Pepinsky? He's a sane professsional from all accounts. Yet here he is facilitating a hysteria to grow in the mentally ill. This is where it gets very murky. How does one tell the difference between delusion, grifting, and perhaps something more bizarre as in possible psyops and deliberate disinfo? Look at Ted Gunderson. We may think he is cointelpro. But could he possibly just be cuckoo bananas?

The triggering alerts done at RI are ridiculous. The whole fricken website design has always been a trigger. There now is that creepy old man with the white rose. Wells' moderator has been a Mr. Creepy 666 type for years. The few normal sounding people appear to have either quit or been banned. It looks like things finally went sour with the Duncan mess. The Theresa Duncan stuff was like a limited hangout to keep folks from realising the utter crap RI has always generated. That's my take. The web's a big place. It's impossible to figure everything out. Some things, say like a Fintan Dunne, are just too stupid to care about. Michael Rivero, now there's a good target. Because he's close to Alex Jones. And Jones, well, there we go full circle back to your post.

Yes, the RI crowd goes on and on about made up fantasies concerning government sponsored satanic sex cults (e.g. The Franklin Hoax) and the goofy mkultra manchurian shit, but don't you even dare speak about controlled demolition. Yeah right. That makes sense. They have the same attitude with chemtrails. Or when those were allowed to be discussed, it'd be the kookiness. I used to have a field day covering the kooky portrayal of chemtrails at RI. That might have contributed to my getting banned before making one post. I've admitted I'm not too into figuring out 9/11. It's like chemtrails. There's nowhere to go on the net to peacefully discuss it without the craziness being interjected.

It's weird. It's almost like with such topics both sides could be correct. Like an enigma. But certain things are so ridiculous to contemplate, it makes me wonder who are these people, and where did they come up with their ideas?

Ok, you seem to know 9/11. While I'm not into it, I would never want to cover anything up just in case, you know, be Mr. Debunker for everything just for sport. I'm thinking of building #7. It was never hit by a plane. It was a pretty big building. That's the one that doesn't seem to add up one bit. Is it possible for a building to fall like that, without being hit, and just because of fire debris falling from the towers?


And another thing. Why, if something insiderish was going on, would there be a need to destroy building 7 like that? Couldn't "they" have just destroyed it later on, when the area would be redeveloped? I could see a conspiracy theory where the two trade towers were brought down for effect. Thus, increase the military, war, spy factories, etc.. Bulding #7 seems to be the back and to the left moment. Let it happen on purpose by some rogue intelligence seems a distinct possibility.

bob said...

This was an awesome piece, thanks Socrates! Nice to see you hooked up with Mr Messner, too.

Something that Sullivan said:
"In reality, Neil Brick is a quality human being. Despite his history as a survivor of Extreme Abuse, he is way ahead of both of you in his moral and ethical development".

This relates to the comment I left in your piece on Sullivan. She's saying that despite...no, no...BECAUSE of Brick's alleged "history as a survivor of Extreme Abuse", he is superior to you! He is a better person than you, he is of greater importance than you, he is smarter and more caring than you, BECAUSE of his status as an Extreme Abuse survivor. That's what she is saying. And she believes the same about herself.

We all just need to surrender ourselves, our minds & our wallects of course, to their superior leadership. They will lead us to salvation from the satanic/military/corporate enslavement we don't realize we live under. Riiiiight.

Anonymous said...

Sullivan wrote about the way people treat others. She believes that people that treat others more fairly and respectfully are more ethical. It has nothing to do with whether they are survivors of abuse or not. No one ever stated anyone wanted to be a leader and there is NO money in helping others.

Susan said...

Socrates,
Found a few pages at the page you mentioned in your comments.

Amirault
evidence of abuse
http://web.archive.org/web/20010719201703/http://www.vocal-nasvo.org/hardoon.htm

victim's statements
http://web.archive.org/web/2001080701133 0/http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010802/us/preschool_abuse_3.html

McMartin
tunnels found backing up children's stories
http://web.archive.org/web/20010123212200/members.cruzio.com/~ratf/McMartin.html/

evidence of abuse
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/02/13/us/reporter-s-notebook-6-months-of-california-case.html

jurors believed children were abused
Tapes of Children Decided the Case for Most Jurors - L A Times
January 19, 1990

socrates said...

Thanks Bob.

It feels good to know there are others who find this stuff fascinating.

I'm actually ashamed that I only started looking into this a few months ago. I had somewhat heard of the Amirault and McMartin cases in real time. I knew there were trials and people went to jail. But I never took a close look until recently. Wow.

I think you're onto something. I think this sra-mc is a form of cult. It becomes part of their identity.

There's obviously tons of money involved. Books get sold. The few therapists involved are making money.

There's this guy Larry who seems sincere (though rough-edged), who even though he believes 6 million were killed in the Holocaust, he really isn't positive. He unfortunately is arguing that anyone who says 300,000 Jews were killed isn't a Holocaust denier. He's into the Patriot Movement. He thinks he's fighting the good fight against the New World Order. It's clouding his ability to be rational and fair in debate. The same kind of thought process seems to be going on with the sra-mc believers.

Now I see a poster named Susan has provided predictable links to attempt to show we are off-base. I'm fairly certain I've already responded to such stuff in diaries written on the McMartin and Amirault cases. I'll check those out and respond to her post as soon as possible. It's close to three am. Thanks again for posting. Take it easy.

socrates said...

Susan, if you would like to debate this, I will look at your sources and respond fairly. I am not afraid to let the reader decide. I am a regular nobody. I take it you are too? That you have no dog in the hunt? But it's close to three am, and I need some shut-eye. Thank you for your patience.

bob said...

There's certainly lots of money to be made through "expert testimoney" in trials, through consultants fees and training seminars. Then there are the referral fees, that people who lurk on forums such as Rigorous Intuition waiting for confused folks to come along asking for help, probably get for referring newbies to their therapists.

Socrates, your willingness to engage in frank debate is admirable, but please beware of a very common tactic employed by "survivors" and their fans. Often, when you confront one of these people about their own claims or activities, they will respond by citing unrelated cases. What does McMartin have to do with Kathleen Sullivan? She wasn't a preschool child enrolled in one of the Buckey's daycares. What does McMartin have to do with Neil Brick's alleged survivor history or his sponsorship of Mind Control/Extreme Abuse conferences? Nothing.

You see?

socrates said...

The problem could partly be the blogger format. In a forum, one can simply bump up more appropriate threads.

I definitely agree that there is an element of folks who pick a side and stick with it no matter what, hence the idea of dogs in the hunt. Maybe in Susan's defense, she didn't notice all the work I put into other threads where the rebuttals to her links are already in place.

I also agree that the McMartin and Fells Acres cases have nothing to do with the sra-mc tinfoil.

So maybe I'll take back that offer to debate Susan and her links. If I go there, it would be akin to debating a Holocaust denier. And if I'm trying to limit my internet addiction, while making the best of my time on the net, it probably isn't worthwhile to reinvent wheels.

The dayschool scandals turned out to be hysteria. Nothing to do with the government. The MKUltra story is one from the past. It really took place, and it is murky stuff. Nonetheless, there's simply zero proof that Neil Brick or Kathleen Sullivan were a part of that. Absolutely nothing.

Stu said...

There is no cult of survivors of cult abuse. Helpers of survivors make little or no money. The different cult abuse and day care cases are connected by the examples of social denial around them and the types of abuse occurring.

bob said...

"There is no cult of survivors of cult abuse".
I think Neil Brick's conference demonstrates that there are "survivor cults".

Please explain how anyone is helped by the invention & promotion of this status-seeking heirarchical term: "Extreme Abuse".

Isn't all abuse horrific? If what SMART members claim to have experienced is "extreme" abuse, what does that make incest without mind control or rituals? "Lesser Abuse"? What does that make domestic violence without mind control or rituals? "Minor Abuse"?

The victimization of all true victims is mocked and degraded by the Mind Control/SRA crowd assigning "superior" rank and status to their alleged abuse experiences, by stating that their abuse was "more extreme" and therefore "more serious", more worthy of sympathy, more courageous to live through, more important to educate people about and protect the innocent from.

Anonymous said...

Child abuse conferences that meet once a year or less are not cults. Cults are like those people that live together or worship Satan at night or church every day of the week. All abuse is horrific. But exteme abuse includes torture. No abuse survivor thinks their abuse is worse than anothers. All abuse needs to be stopped, like that in the name of Satan or Jesus.

bob said...

According to Carol Lutz, et. al., there are at least 70 persons who are themselves Ritual Abuse-Mind Control "victim claimants" and who are practising some kind of "therapy" involving clients that they, or the clients themselves, have "diagnosed" to be Ritual Abuse-Mind Control victims.

Presumably, these victim-claimant therapists themselves underwent therapy before becoming practitioners.

So, confused/deluded/gullible people went to therapy and were converted into 'true-believer' Ritual Abuse-Mind Control victim claimants - then those persons went into practise themselves, specializing in "treating" people who are similarly confused/deluded/gullible, and their clients end up becoming 'true believers' and/or yet more Ritual Abuse-Mind Control victims.

Along the way there are newsletters, annual conferences, "survivor advocacy" groups, a wide range of "survivor sanctuary" groups wherein non-believers are not welcome, and an ever expanding parade of self-help guides for "victims" written by other "victims" or victim-therapists.

How is that cycle in any way different from troubled people going to Scientology "therapy", being converted to Scientology true believers, setting up shop as Scientology therapists themselves & converting people who come them into Scientologists?

All manifestations of Ritual Abuse-Mind Control victim claimants involve "survivor" cults in some way.

Anonymous said...

There is no evidence that any of the above is occurring. Nor any evidence that anyone was "deluded" or "gullible."

Support groups do not normally allow those attacking them or those that do not support them to become members or attend their function.

None of the dynamics of a cult occur in the survivor movement or the rare survivor conference.

However, cult dynamics do occur in the false memory movement. The false memory movement does everything it can to make sure that only its side is heard, including controlling the media, harassment and attacks of those that do not believe its philosophies. This way they control information just like a cult does.

Those attacking cult survivors are often members of cults using aliases or have actual ties to cults or cult-like groups.

Doug Mesner said...

There is no evidence that any of the above is occurring. Nor any evidence that anyone was "deluded" or "gullible."

Such would only be written by the deluded and gullible. SMART is entirely cult-like in that it is entirely resistant to any information or facts that might force them to revise their conspiracist presumptions. It's hilarious that SMART cries that people who recognise the existence of false memories control the media while SMART refuses to admit media and seems to do nothing to actually promote its own cause beyond harassing people on message boards. Are the clinical psychology research papers that entirely contradict the theory of repressed traumatic memory an example of "the false memory movement" controlling information? Is most of academia in on the plot to protect satanists? I suppose the debunking of Satanic Panic myths and tales were all the work of secret cultists as well? I suppose it may make you feel better to believe that all of your detractors are themselves evil cultists - and why not? The very essence of SMART is that you can believe whatever you want, no matter how contrary to reality it is. When you have a speaker from last year telling the audience that she witnessed Dr. Mengele opening "quantum portals" to call forth demons, it's amazing you have the audacity to argue in defense of your scientific veracity. You chose to speak your demented fantasies out loud at the expense of others. Stop crying when not everybody just ignores your idiocy, and some rational people subject you to the mockery you deserve. And tell me, what are you want-to-be victims doing to inform the media of your plight? We have the Vatican running a paedophile crime ring - have you thought of joining the fight to bring the Catholic Church to justice, or are you content fighting the imaginary crimes of imaginary satanists so that you may play the victim, rather than being of real help to real victims?

socrates said...

Thanks Doug. I copied and pasted your post on the new thread titled Canadian Bob in the Spotlight.

Anonymous said...

It has been proven that false memory proponents swung media opinion on child abuse issues in the early 1990's.

Calling a group cultlike because the person disagrees with the group's opinions is just name calling without evidence.

Mesner ignores all facts contrary to his opinions. A quick search of the Internet shows that Mesner harasses his opponents in a variety of areas, with insults and name calling as above.

The recovered memory debate has many sides. The clear majority of those that work with trauma victims believe that it exists.

Mesner pulls one statement from one person at a conference above out of context, ignoring the rest of their story as well as all of the information proving that extreme child abuse and cult abuse exists.

Mesner writes: "I suppose it may make you feel better to believe that all of your detractors are themselves evil cultists - and why not?"

But no one ever wrote this. What was written was:
"Those attacking cult survivors are often members of cults using aliases or have actual ties to cults or cult-like groups."

And this is true. Mesner misrepresents others arguments and statements to ridicule them.

Mesner himself is connected to several cultlike or Satanic groups.

A quick search of Internet shows him to be a DJ on a "radiofreesatan" website.

He is mentioned on a "church of satan" website.

On another webpage he is cited as having done an illustration and quote for the book "Might is Right" with an Anton Levey into.

He is connected to process.org which uses the same symbol on its website that the the Process church did. The Process church has been called a cult by some. They believed in Jehovah, Lucifer and Satan.

Mesner justifies his vicious attacks on others the same way a playground bully does when he doesn't like the color of another person's shirt. In this way he blames the other person for his abusive behavior. Yet he is responsible for his own behavior.

Mesner brings up the Catholic church. But a quick look at the SMART website shows that they have many articles in their newsletter exposing the Catholic church and their cover ups. I could find no articles on the Internet showing Mesner posting anything on the Internet on this topic.

Doug Mesner said...

"It has been proven that false memory proponents swung media opinion on child abuse issues in the early 1990's."
Despite the fact that we know that your standards of "proof" only go so far to include what you'd like to believe, I'll agree that "false memory proponents swung media opinion" and that they did so with facts, empirical research, and evidence. "The media" was fully willing to believe sensational recovered memory stories, it was a lack of factual basis that eventually killed that trend.
I never called SMART cult-like merely because I disagree with it. I called it cult-like because its members believe in propositions that are demonstrably untrue (and please, tell me how I took the quote about Mengele from "Royal's" presentation out of context, or any of the comments made by Julainne or DeJoly Labrier, for that matter), they are impervious to new information that might force them to revise their opinions (as in the Amirault case, the debunking of Michelle Remembers and Satan's Underground), they are hostile to outsiders (I've been to many pseudoscience conferences that allow non-believers and outsiders), and they perceive any outside disagreement as being part of a conspiracy (as in the accusation that I myself belong to cults). Please, tell me, what "cult-like" behaviour am I engaged in. In several other internet postings I have mentioned that I am not a part of the former cult known as The Process (which no longer exists), but contributed research to a book about them (Love Sex Fear Death, Feral House, 2009).
"He is mentioned on a "church of satan" website." Yes, and SMART is mentioned on Process.org. Does that mean that SMART is part of The Process?
I also find it funny how Neil Brick cries that he is being "bullied". When one peruses the SMART website, one can easily find ad hominem attacks upon real scientists and researchers like McHugh and Loftus. McHugh is denigrated for defending paedophiles, when of course he's not out to defend paedophiles, he's defending those who were falsely accused on the non-evidence of recovered memories. SMART can not dispute Loftus's replicate-able false memory research proving the existence of false memories, so instead her "ethics" are questioned. But, of course, when the question becomes 'who is SMART?', well, then it's just "bullying".
A quick internet search of SMART organiser Neil Brick shows that he is delusional enough to claim that he was brain-washed by Freemasons to be an assassin, yet he paints himself as some type of psychotherapy expert. A quick email exchange with Neil Brick's boss at the Behavioral Health Network in MA reveals that his SMART work has "no official relationship to Behavioral Health Network, Inc" and is entirely unrelated to the the services he provides therein.

Doug Mesner said...

An interview with the president of the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation reveals that the ISSTD feels strongly that SMART has "nothing to do" with their organisation "at all". In fact, when it was pointed out the SMART could be reached through their self-help links, the ISSTD declared that a glaring "mistake" and removed the link. So SMART really has nothing to do with Dissociative studies even if I didn't disagree with them on the issue of recovered memories. Even experts in the field of dissociation who disagree with me on the issue of traumatic amnesia agree with me that SMART is a delusional group of paranoiacs who should not be pretending to be experts in the field.
A search of SMART reveals articles about the Catholic Church insofar as they are used to expand the scope of a conspiracy theory that is meant to prove recovered memories, but there seems to be no action on SMART's part against the church itself, as they probably feel the Catholic Church has actually been infiltrated by satanists. For my part, I am aiding Project Reason in bringing litigation against The Pope

socrates said...

Thanks for your comments, Doug. I'd just like to say if you guys want to post anything else, you're more likely to be read on the new thread. I have linked back to this one, though, so no problem there for the interested to see what else has been written. This anonymous has jumped the shark. He claims you are Bob from Canada. This same tactic has been used in the past against myself. When the enemy can't deal with content that transcends who I am as an individual, claims are made that I am an ubertroll who uses sock puppets.

Anonymous said...

Mesner:
"I'll agree that "false memory proponents swung media opinion" and that they did so with facts, empirical research, and evidence."

Wrong

It was done with harassment:
Confessions of a Whistle-Blower: Lessons Learned
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a918444284

Notes from a practice under siege: Harassment, defamation, and intimidation in the name of science
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a918444287

Silencing the Victim: The Politics of Discrediting Child Abuse Survivors http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a918444285

and media manipulation:
The foundation is an aggressive, well-financed p.r. machine adept at manipulating the press, harassing its critics, and mobilizing a diverse army
http://web.archive.org/web/20071216011151/http://backissues.cjrarchives.org/year/97/4/memory.asp

Mesner:
"impervious to new information"

No one is impervious to new information at survivor conferences or anywhere else.

Vicious attacks, misrepresenting survivor stories, research and name calling are not providing new information, but are only made to discredit survivors of child abuse.

Mesner appears to ignore all information contrary to his beliefs.


Mesner:
"McHugh is denigrated for defending paedophiles"

Wrong

McHugh is critized for his lack of clinical experience and questioned in one article from a mainstream newspaper because he testified on behalf of accused molesters.

Mesner:
"her (Loftus) "ethics" are questioned"

There have been allegations that she has violated research ethics published in journal articles.
http://users.owt.com/crook/memory/

The misapplication of her research to traumatic memory has also been questioned.

Questioning one's motives and one's research ethics is quite different than calling one names and insulting them, as Mesner does.

Calling people delusional is just more name calling and using personal attacks to discredit them is simply a propaganda technique to discredit their research.

Mesner:
"A search of SMART reveals articles about the Catholic Church insofar as they are used to expand the scope of a conspiracy theory that is meant to prove recovered memories, but there seems to be no action on SMART's part against the church itself, as they probably feel the Catholic Church has actually been infiltrated by satanists."

Totally wrong

The newsletter has a wide variety of articles from mainstream newspapers about the clergy abuse crisis from all over the world. No statement has ever been made by SMART on their website that the church is infiltrated. Another fabrication by Mesner.

Mesner:
"experts in the field"

Yet is Mesner an expert in the field. What is his educational background? Has he ever worked with a trauma victim? Or has he just interviewed a few people and read a few books.

Mesner:
"SMART really has nothing to do with Dissociative studies."

Wrong

SMART provides a large number of resources on the field of dissociation and trauma at its website.

In regard to his article on the conference he attended, the SMART website has a rebuttal to his claims.

http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/rebuttal-to-the-report-from-the-smart-2009-conference/

Doug Mesner said...

What?? No mention of how the ISSTD dis-owned SMART? No defense of Neil Brick? Has Brick worked with trauma at all? And I've covered that SMART "rebuttal" ad nauseum. It's not even a rebuttal. It's a long list of debunked articles by discredited psychiatrists, and even they will have nothing to do with SMART. An interesting thing about the "rebuttal" is that it flatly lies when it disowns statements made in SMART's presentations. Why is this? Embarrassment? Recognition that the claims made by SMART are utterly absurd and indefensible?
"McHugh is critized for his lack of clinical experience and questioned in one article from a mainstream newspaper because he testified on behalf of accused molesters." McHugh who was head of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins and worked directly with trauma and those who were diagnosed DID. He has a lack of clinical experience? Compared to who? Neil Brick? Hilarious. Criticised for defending accused child molesters? That's what I'm saying, if your limited reading comprehension can grasp it: he's not defending the molestation of children or people who believes are actually molesters. You don't understand the issues here at all, do you?
"Yet is Mesner an expert in the field. What is his educational background? Has he ever worked with a trauma victim?" Turns out I'm much more educated than Brick on the topic, but even if I weren't, what would it matter? If I'm acting as the journalist in this case I'm not required to have a psychiatric residency. I just reported the facts about SMART, and SMART went all to pieces following its publication. What is Neil Brick's expertise? Why does his own employer tell us that his work has nothing to do with the delusional fantasies he puts forward through SMART?
"The newsletter has a wide variety of articles from mainstream newspapers about the clergy abuse crisis from all over the world." Again, the point goes entirely over your head.
And when I call Brick "delusional", it's not mere name calling. I believe he truly is delusional as a matter of fact.
"SMART provides a large number of resources on the field of dissociation and trauma at its website. " Yes, but my point is, why do those resources disown SMART? Let me answer that for you: because SMART is clearly a group of delusional conspiracy theorists, and even sane people who believe in dissociative amnesia recognise that.

Anonymous said...

The above is an example of how Mesner misrepresents an argument to his own advantage, changing and adding to the truth to attack others he disagrees with.

Mesner:
"dis-owned SMART?"

No one disowned anyone. Mesner claims a link was deleted and an organization stated they are not connected to another one. This is the use of exaggeration to discredit people Mesner disagrees with.

Mesner:
"I've covered that SMART "rebuttal" ad nauseum. It's not even a rebuttal. It's a long list of debunked articles by discredited psychiatrists."

The rebuttal (http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/rebuttal-to-the-report-from-the-smart-2009-conference/)
mentions websites that list peer reviewed journal articles.
There are no lies in the rebuttal. However Mesner in his articles on the conference put words in people's mouths and took statements out of context to discredit conference speakers. This is another example of how Mesner misrepresents an argument to his own advantage.

Reader's can decide for themselves about what is written about McHugh at http://ritualabuse.us/research/memory-fms/paul-mchugh/

from a scientific journal article there:
"McHugh has made it clear that other than an occasional consultation, he has very little actual clinical experience with the ongoing treatment of MPD/DID patients and is generally unfamiliar with both the clinical features of MPD/DID and with what usually occurs in their treatment."

The critique on McHugh is from the article "Dubious choice for resolving church scandal"
The critique questions whether he should be on a lay council dealing with the church scandal. Mesner misrepresents the context of where the critique is coming from above.

Mesner:
"Turns out I'm much more educated than Brick on the topic."
Really. List your educational and clinical experience. And yes it does matter, since you are claiming to be knowledgeable in what you write and criticizing others that work in the field.

Mesner:
"If I'm acting as the journalist in this case I'm not required to have a psychiatric residency. I just reported the facts about SMART, and SMART went all to pieces following its publication."


But you are required to know what you write about, since you claim to be critiquing others. You don't report facts, you misrepresent what people state, spin it to attack them and then call them names, personally attack and harass them.

And SMART and the entire ritual abuse movement is much stronger since you wrote your article. People are so shocked by your vicious attacks, they side with those you write about and support them much more.

Mesner:
"delusional" it's not mere name calling.

But it is. If you agreed with the fact that ritual abuse exists, then you would not call anyone delusional. You would state they are right. The fact is that you use repeated insults against your ideological opponents shows this is just more name calling on your part, in an attempt to discredit them.


Sane people realize that Mesner's attacks and insults are not part of any sort of "debunking" or "skeptical analysis" but are agenda driven attacks to discredit his opponents using propaganda techniques.

Doug Mesner said...

"No one disowned anyone."
Wrong. The ISSTD dis-owned SMART as an irrational organisation that perpetuates delusion.
"There are no lies in the rebuttal."
Wrong. Neil Brick lies when he says I "put words in" other's mouths and mis-represented the conference. The conference was accurately reported upon. If it wasn't, sue me. Actually, your claiming that I lied when I did not constitutes defamation. Maybe that's why you're "anonymous" here. Afraid to stand by your words aren't you? Just as you refuse to elaborate on your tale regarding personal masonic mind-control, isn't it? Why is that?
"[McHugh] has very little actual clinical experience with the ongoing treatment of MPD/DID". That's because he found that once they stopped being encouraged to have DID, they seized having it. Read about it, you might learn something.
"List your educational and clinical experience." List yours. Explain why Katherine Wilson at BHN says your work has nothing to do with what you promote through SMART.
"But you are required to know what you write about." And I do. I wish you knew what you hold conferences about.
"SMART and the entire ritual abuse movement is much stronger since you wrote your article". And that line-up was the best you could for your upcoming conference?
"If you agreed with the fact that ritual abuse exists, then you would not call anyone delusional." True. But they don't, and you are delusional.

Anonymous said...

"dis-owned SMART as an irrational organisation"
No one ever stated this. This is a total misinterpretation of what occurred. A link was deleted and an organization stated they are not connected to another one. The above statement is a misinterpretation used to falsely discredit another group.

The conference was not accurately reported on. The so-called report picks and chooses a few statements from speakers at the conference, ignores any information that backs up the stories of the presenters and ridicules those that presented there. It is an extremely unbalanced and one sided report of the conference.

Are you afraid to say who you really are? People from the conference state "Mesner" is an alias. Tell us your name.

If McHugh "has very little actual clinical experience with the ongoing treatment of MPD/DID" then how could he know that anyone is being encouraged to have DID.

No one encourages anyone to have DID. There is zero evidence from legitimate scientific sources this occurs. DID is in the DSM-IV-TR. It is a legitimate diagnosis and is caused by extreme repeated trauma.

Mesner:
"List yours."
I asked first. List your educational and clinical experience.

Workplaces normally state that the activities of their employees outside of the workplace on their own time are their own business and are unrelated to their jobs. This is standard practice.

Looking at the conference line up and comparing it to other years, it appears to be similar to the line up from most of the other conferences.

You agree that you call people "delusional" because they disagree with you. This is name calling, a propaganda technique used to falsely discredit one the other person disagrees with.

Doug Mesner said...

""dis-owned SMART as an irrational organisation"
No one ever stated this. This is a total misinterpretation of what occurred. A link was deleted and an organization stated they are not connected to another one. The above statement is a misinterpretation used to falsely discredit another group."
This is incredible to me. The whole incident came about from MY interaction with the ISSTD, which I've not even published yet. The full interview is on audio. Believe me, Neil, when the ISSTD says SMART has nothing to do with them, they are not saying that they are not financially intertwined or otherwise legally enmeshed, they are saying that SMART has nothing to do with the legitimate study of Dissociation and Trauma. They specifically say it is unfair to categorize SMART anywhere with the ISSTD, and that the link leading web-viewers to SMART was a regrettable mistake. SMART was dis-owned as an irrational group of conspiracy theorists that propagate delusion by the ISSTD, Neil. That is how it is to be written, because that's the fact of the matter. Call the ISSTD. See what they tell you.
"The conference was not accurately reported on. The so-called report picks and chooses a few statements from speakers at the conference"
So what's the complaint here? That I didn't put full transcripts verbatim? Do you deny the "electromagnetic wave" blocking hats? Do you deny the statements that WERE in the report? Anybody can read the presentations of Labrier and Royal on your website to see my reporting was accurate. Yet my reporting them bothers you. Why? Is it because you recognise they sound utterly deranged?
"put words in people's mouths and took statements out of context"
And again, you say this without specifying anything, demonstrating once more that you're of the mind that if you repeat it enough, it must be true.
"List your educational and clinical experience."
I'm not really sure what you think you're getting out of this. I guess it's the last refuge of a guy who has no intellectual defense. It is, unfortunately, a matter of record that my academic credentials are solid - but, as I've said before, say I was a high school drop-out. So what? What then? we see that McHugh being head of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins isn't enough for you because he didn't engage in "long-term" treatment of DID. He found DID cases DID NOT NEED long-term treatment for the disorder, so how does it make sense to criticise that he did not provide a treatment he found they did not need? Also, I'm not Bob - but what if I was? What are you trying to prove? That I'm silly enough to come on here as two different people? what would I do that for? What's your point? How does that defend the non-existent credibility of SMART?