This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Friday, April 30, 2010

Professor Donkeytale Gave Me Homework

We're talking a summer course with a pass or fail grade, so don't get your hopes up good readers. In short, I'm mailing this one in. p:>
Donkeytale: I dont much care to speculate on McGauley's personal foibles. Let he who is without sin, etc. Im not sure why you'r so derogatory to people who come to yur site. It definitely doesnt help you extract info from them. But I think you should cut and paste the recent dialogue into a FP piece, just for the record. I'd also like to see you tie the Satanic panic hysteria into Sunstein into the whiteysphere as a whole. Very instructive. I'd do it myslef but no time....and it seems to be what yur doing anyway, altho you leave the analysis unfinished, IMHO.
I'll try to be nicer to folks, even when their schticks don't add up. Donkeytale simply doesn't realise that I've been one of the most abused bloggers in whiteysphere history. It may not be a great excuse, but I'm going to use it. Call it the victim card. I admit talk is cheap. I can say I'll be a nicer bloke, but until I am, there's no point in making any guarantees. I am willing to try to be a better person. Babs says it best.



Or maybe Bono does.



What was the question? Oh yeah, donkeytale has suggested I copy and paste the recent give and take from myself and Jackie McGauley from this diary. For those who don't know, Jackie was perhaps the most influential Mom in pushing the case against the McMartin Preschool. She used to live with Ted Gunderson. She owns the "tunnel" report. She reappeared at this humble information palace a week ago. Here it is.
Jackie: I lost track of this and didn't read the comments until I got a blog alert today.

Geraldo had Bobby Fischer's address and hired gunderson to get him on film. gunderson contracted a surveillance guy who gave up. Don't know how much Geraldo paid gunderson,
I ended up helping. I had a van (later stolen) and a video camera.
The results were shown on Geraldo's short lived show Now It Can Be Told.
I have the raw tapes if you need proof
fischerfinder-aka JM

Jackie: I have a contract with the Archaeologist proving that I paid for and own the tunnel report.
JM
Jackie then put her comments in capital letters to offset mine she kept in regular case.
Jackie: Hi Jackie McGaulvey,

Thanks for posting.

Do you have proof for your claims? I don't think you're a willing liar. Clarence Malcolm is on the run for sexually abusing children? That's a serious charge.

NO-HE IS ON THE RUN (WARRANT) FOR NOT APPEARING FOR A TRAFFIC TICKET. MALCOLM WAS PICKED UP AND JAILED. JOHN DECAMP BAILED HIM OUT AND HE FAILED TO APPEAR AGAIN.
THE CHILD ABUSE CLAIM IS RELATED TO A YOUNG GIRL IN THE GUNDERSON/ MALCOLM RESIDENCE THAT WAS NOT ENROLLED IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. WHEN THE POLICE KNOCKED ON THEIR DOOR, WERE REFUSED ENTRY, SO HAD TO GO BACK FOR A WARENT, THEY ALL CLEARED OUT IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT. NEIGHBORS ALSO DESCRIBED SQUALID CONDITIONS AT THE HOME AMONG OTHER THINGS.

Do you know if a Christopher Link Jones was also a webmaster for Ted Gunderson? And if so, is he the same guy who infiltrated Bohemian Grove and became associated with Alex Jones?

ONE AND THE SAME. HE IS IN PRISON FOR MOLESTING YOUNG NEIGHBOR BOYS IN CALIFORNIA. HIS ARREST REPORT CAN BE FOUND ONLINE- CHRISTOPHER LINK JONES

What about Debbie Nathan? You must be aware of her essay titled, "McMartin Preschool Tunnel Claims: Evidence of a Hoax." It is reposted on my new blog entry. She says she has various proof, police reports etc.. She says in 1984 you reported to the police that your daughter had been abused by your ex-boyfriend, a reporter for The Daily Breeze. She says you also complained to the police in 1985 that she was molested by a therapist at the Richstone Center.

DEBBIE NATHAN IS A LIAR.
SHE GOT THE POLICE REPORTS FROM THE MCMARTIN DEFENSE TEAM AND SHE TWISTS THE INFORMATION TO SUIT HER AND FMSF'S AGENDA.


Nathan also wrote that in 1985 when an initial dig was taking place, a small map was found by investigators with a picture of the school along with two X's pointing to tortoise shells. Any comment?

TWISTED AGAIN. I DON'T REMEMBER WHICH INVESTIGATOR FOUND THE MAP-MAY HAVE BEEN PAUL BYNUM WHO WAS HIRED BY BUCKEY.THE MAP WAS NOT AT THE 1985 DIG COMMISSIONED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS OFFICE. THEY SEARCHED DOWN ABOUT 6 INCHES ONLY IN THE SIDE YARD. THEY DID NOT LOOK UNDER THE PRESCHOOL BUILDING AS WAS DONE IN THE 1990 DIG BY THE ARCHAEOLOGIST THE PARENTS HIRED.

I see elsewhere that you don't buy into the satanic cult angle brought forth by Gunderson and others. That is to your credit. But why don't you just release the archaeological dig report? Are you holding out to make money off of it? Why wait? What's the point of holding off any longer?

IT IS NOT PROPERLY FINISHED. I COULD RELEASE IT UNFINISHED, AM LOOKING INTO THAT NOW. I AM NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANY MONEY ON THE REPORT. I MADE SEVERAL HUNDRED COPIES AT MY EXPENSE AND GAVE THEM AWAY FREE OR ONLY CHARGED MY COST; $20 EACH. I WILL TRY TO POST IT ONLINE BUT I'D PREFER TO HAVE IT COMPLETE.


Are you denying that there was a satanic panic that spread across America and into Europe? How do you feel about other high profile cases which revolved around wild claims of satanic ritual abuse and international pedophile rings? Do you think any innocent people went to jail?

WHO CAN SAY IF ANY INNOCENT PEOPLE WENT TO JAIL OR NOT? THOUGH OF THE CASES I KNOW ABOUT, I DOUBT IT.
I DON'T DENY THE SATANIC PANIC THEORY BUT THERE WERE CHILDREN MOLESTED AND THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE!!!
SATANIC PANIC WAS USED IN THOSE CASES TO DIVERT PUBLIC ATTENTION FROM THE REAL CRIME-CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE-PLUS SATANISM STORIES SOLD PAPERS AND GOT GOOD TV RATINGS.THE MEDIA USED IT FOR MANY YEARS AROUND HALLOWEEN/SWEEPS WEEK.

MORE IN NEXT POST-THIS WAS TOO LONG TO BE ACCEPTED...


Jackie: CONTINUED...

Do you ever consider that you may be wrong? Those of us who believe the McMartin Preschool and other cases were hoaxes do not blame the parents or every cop, social worker, etc. who was involved. Maybe we are upset at those who cannot admit that the crazed panic led to innocent people going to jail. I personally believe that Gunderson as an accomplished FBI man during the cointelpro era was put forward to give the satanic cult meme gravitas. I believe it has been used to cover up provable big conspiracies, for example, those revolving around the Promis software and the Cabazon murders. I believe convolution has been deliberately spread on the internet to muddy the waters.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT GUNDERSON'S REAL AGENDA IS. I DO KNOW HIS EX WIFE CONFIRMS THAT HE WAS DIAGNOSED PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC-AS IS HIS SON AND DAUGHTER-MANY YEARS AGO. AND HE WAS INVOLVED IN COINTELPRO IN THE BLACK PANTHER/BOBBY SEAL CASE.
OF COURSE I HAVE CONSIDERED THAT I MAY BE WRONG OVER THE YEARS. BUT I CAN NOT DENY MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH MY OWN CHILD AND TH EPRESCHOOL. I DO BELIEVE THERE WAS CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE AT THE PRESCHOOL INVOLVING MANY CHILDREN.


What's up with those Brice Taylor and Barbara Hartwell women? I see Brice's real name is Sue Ford. Does anyone know who her family were? Or how her crazy story got started? Gunderson is fully discredited in my book by having gone into their corner. I couldn't care less if Hartwell now purports to hate him. One can also link Gunderson directly to holocaust revisionists and other right woos left propaganda.

I CAN'T VOUCH FOR ANY OF THAT.
GUNDERSON WAS INVOLVED HEAVILY WITH LYNDON LAROUCHE WHEN HE WAS AT MY HOUSE (MY HOUSE BECAUSE THE LEASE WAS IN MY NAME ONLY)
I THINK HE IS A SICK MAN AND NEEDS TO BE ON MEDS.

We had a case similar to yours in Massachusetts called Fells Acres. It had the same kind of result with innocent people going to jail. Nothing personal, but I don't believe there was any tunnel at the McMartin Preschool. It looks like it was either an area where plumbing was put in, or where waste areas were created. Why are you holding onto the report? If you really wanted to show proof that hundreds of children were abused in satanic rituals at McMartin, surely you would publish the whole report. If noone has paid you money by now, what makes you think someone ever will?

I AM NOT WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY ME MONEY. I PLAN ON PAYING FOR IT MYSELF. I HAVEN'T HAD THE FUNDS FOR IT BUT RECENTLY THE INTERNET IS BETTER ABLE TO MEET MY NEEDS FOR PUTTING IT ON LINE.

December 26, 2009 9:13 PM

SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS. I NEVER WAS ALERTED TO THESE POSTS.
THANKS
JM


Me: I doubt you were just notified about additional posts made on this entry. You must mean you just checked your email address and found this out.

No one's disputing that you are in control of the tunnel report. People are curious why it was never published in its entirety for all to see. There have also been many convincing words written explaining what was up with your so-called tunnels.

Funny how you offer some video of an old 1992 Geraldo episode purportedly spotting Bobby Fischer. As if that would even mean anything.

Debbie Nathan thoroughly exposed the scam which is the McMartin Daycare PreSchool hoax. In this essay, she offers to share such evidence and merely asks for copying and postage costs.

Hey, if you want to upload the Bobby Fischer Geraldo thingie you are rambling about, more power to you. It appears to have been uploaded before to youtube but has been since deleted.


Me: Hi, we posted at the same time, so my last post will seem like I didn't respond fairly. I can't reply now. If you would like, I can start a new thread on the frontpage for you to post whatever you want to. Otherwise, few are probably going to be reading this. Take it easy.


Me: Hi again. I'll now do my best to respond to your posts.

I haven't a clue on the convolution concerning Gunderson and DeCamp. My gut tells me it is about the willful spreading of disinfo.

I find it thoroughly interesting that Alex Jones can be tied to Ted Gunderson.

And this takes me to our differences. I don't believe you are a willing dispenser of disinformation. The same thing goes for Noreen Gosch. Heck, I've made mistakes myself. It's the reader that decides. There's no need for any hostility, and I apologise for any of that I may have directed at yourself. Anyway, that's where misinfo comes in rather than disinfo. There is a big difference.

We can safely say Gunderson was probably involved with cointelpro. He was a higher up in the FBI during that time. But to call him part of a black budget psyops after he left the FBI, that's a tough call. I think he was. Could he have just gone batshit insane? That's also a possibility.

As to what you say about Debbie Nathan, unless you can show those police reports and how you allege she twisted it, I think it's unfair of you to call her a liar. You picked a side in this thing decades ago. It appears to me that you like many others merely fit things into that belief system. You've put so much time and effort into a well-crafted hoax or hysteria, that it would shock your system to find out you've been had. You might also end up feeling incredible guilt for what kind of life you established for your child.

This is nothing personal, Jackie. I actually feel bad for you. My advice is to try to find a third party, someone with no dog in the hunt who is smart enough to look at all the evidence and tell you the real deal. You owe Debbie Nathan an apology. She's a journalist. She wasn't out to get you or to make a name for herself or whatever. You need to prove your case. Saying Debbie Nathan is a liar dcesn't make it true. In fact, when you make unsubstantiated comments like that, it makes you look like you're suffering some kind of chronic mental illness and need help. You don't want to end up like Noreen Gosch holding onto delusions to the end.

I'm sorry, but the McMartins were completely innocent. The satanic panic was real. Many innocent people like them and the Amiraults went to prison based on hysteria, whether that was induced by a psyop or by social trends.

I don't see you debunking any of the obvious flaws in the McMartin Case. I think I'll be making a new entry soon on this story. You're free to post. I won't censor you.

If you don't mind me asking, how is your child? Are you still in contact with him or her? Does she ever discuss the experience in public, or maybe she was too young to truly remember what happened?

You also mention that Gunderson was in contact with Lyndon LaRouche. How do you know this, and what was there relationship? Thanks for your time.


Jackie: Hi again. I'll now do my best to respond to your posts.

THANKS, I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT TO GE TO THE TRUTH . SORRY TO USE CAPS ..I'M NOT YELLING :)
I HAVE AN ALERT SET UP FOR MY NAME AND THEY OFTEN SEND OLD POSTS.

I haven't a clue on the convolution concerning Gunderson and DeCamp. My gut tells me it is about the willful spreading of disinfo.

ME EITHER...

I find it thoroughly interesting that Alex Jones can be tied to Ted Gunderson.

And this takes me to our differences. I don't believe you are a willing dispenser of disinformation. The same thing goes for Noreen Gosch. TED MET HER THROUGH ME. I KNEW HER SINCE 1984. Heck, I've made mistakes myself. It's the reader that decides. There's no need for any hostility, and I apologise for any of that I may have directed at yourself. THANKS. Anyway, that's where misinfo comes in rather than disinfo. There is a big difference.

We can safely say Gunderson was probably involved with cointelpro. THE BLACK PANTHER INFO IS EASY ENOUGH TO FIND..He was a higher up in the FBI during that time. But to call him part of a black budget psyops after he left the FBI, that's a tough call. YEP, SOMETHING WE HAVE DEBATING FOR YEARS..WE JUST WONDER HOW HE STAYS OUT OF PRISON FOR. I think he was. Could he have just gone batshit insane? That's also a possibility.
IF I HAD TO CHOOSE, I'D TAKE BATSHIT INSANE, BUT WHY DOES HE GET AWAY WITH SO MANY CRIMES?? MAYBE HE IS JUST THAT SAAVY-WE DN'T GET IT.
As to what you say about Debbie Nathan, unless you can show those police reports and how you allege she twisted it, I think it's unfair of you to call her a liar. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET MY POLICE REPORTS. DIDN'T THINK I HAD TO BUT HTEY ARE MY REPORTS AND UNLESS THE POLICE WERE THE ONES THAT TWISTED THE CONTENT, HICH I DOUBT, THEN DEBBIE IS THE TWISTER. You picked a side in this thing decades ago. WELL, HMMMM IT WAS MY CASE LONG BEFORE DEBBIE CAME ALONG. It appears to me that you like many others merely fit things into that belief system. NO, IT WAS OUR EXPERIENCE AS THE CASE UNFOLDED... You've put so much time and effort into a well-crafted hoax or hysteria, that it would shock your system to find out you've been had. IF I HAD BEEN 'HAD' DEBBIE'S WRITING WOULDN'T BE WHAT WOULD CONVINCE ME.. FOR SURE!! You might also end up feeling incredible guilt for what kind of life you established for your child.

2 PARTS, AGAIN...



Jackie: This is nothing personal, Jackie. I actually feel bad for you. My advice is to try to find a third party, someone with no dog in the hunt who is smart enough to look at all the evidence and tell you the real deal. THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS LL BIIOUT THE INVESTIGATION AND TRIAL AND I KNOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE. POLICE, D.A. FORMER MCMARTIN 'STUDENTS'.. AND NONE OF THEM AGREE WITH YOU AND DEBBIE'S THEORY. ARE YOU TELLING ME I SHOULD LISTEN TO FMSF AND NOT THE PRINCIPALS INVOLVED IN THE CASE? FMSF STARTED WRITING ABOUT THE CASE IN THE 90S-- 10 YEARS AFTER THE FACT. You owe Debbie Nathan an apology. She's a journalist. She wasn't out to get you or to make a name for herself or whatever. SHE NAMED ME AND WENT AFTER ME.. SHE OWES ME AN APOLOGY AND A RETRACTION OF EVERYTHING SHE WROTE ABOUT ME. You need to prove your case. Saying Debbie Nathan is a liar dcesn't make it true. In fact, when you make unsubstantiated comments like that, it makes you look like you're suffering some kind of chronic mental illness and need help. WOW- THINK ABOUT THAT STATEMENT. DEBBIE WROTE THAT JUDY JOHNSON WAS MENTALLY ILL-IT WAS A DEFENSE TACTIC-BUT NOT TRUE. HOW IS A COMMENT ABOUT MY OWN EXPERIENCE UNSUBSTANTIATED? You don't want to end up like Noreen Gosch holding onto delusions to the end.YEAH, I WARNED NOREEN ABOUT GUNDERSON, I KNEW HER HUSBAND JOHN, SR. I THINK SHE WENT ALONG WITH GUNDERSON'S CRAZINESS, ALL OF HER INFORMATION WAS NOT DEVELOPED BY PROFESSIONALS, JUST GUNDERSON. BUT I DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW WHAT IS TRUE OR NOT ABOT HER SITUATION.

I'm sorry, but the McMartins were completely innocent. The satanic panic was real. Many innocent people like them and the Amiraults went to prison based on hysteria, whether that was induced by a psyop or by social trends. ASK ANYONE IN PRISON AND THEY WILL SAY THEY ARE INNOCENT...

I don't see you debunking any of the obvious flaws in the McMartin Case. I think I'll be making a new entry soon on this story. You're free to post. I won't censor you. LET ME KNOW.

If you don't mind me asking, how is your child? Are you still in contact with him or her? Does she ever discuss the experience in public, or maybe she was too young to truly remember what happened? MY CHILDREN ARE FINE.

PART 2...

You also mention that Gunderson was in contact with Lyndon LaRouche. How do you know this, and what was there relationship? Thanks for your time.
JEFFERY STEINBERG, LAROUCHE'S INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, WAS AT MY HOUSE OFTEN. HE LIVES IN LEESBERG, VA. LAROUCHE PUBLISHED DECAMP'S BOOK. IT TOOK SOME RESEARCH TO PROOVE THAT.
THERE IS A SITE THAT SHOWS ASSOCIATIONS FOR PEOPLE.CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT RIGHT NOW,,,, I'LL POST IT IN A MINUTE WHEN I FIND IT..


Jackie: Found it.
NAME BASE PROXIMITY SEARCH. Don't know how this is put together, but it was the first place i saw the connections after hearing it from 2 other sources.
In searching ofr that, i found a ton of references to the gunderson, deCamp, LaRouche connection.


Me: Hi Jackie, thanks for the responses.

I don't mind the all caps to offset my words from your own. I find it kind of cute. (Sorry, I am an internet flirter at times. p:>) Though it's unnecessary. I promise to never delete my posts, so you don't have to repost what I've written.

Also, there's a new thread on the frontpage with McMartin in the heading. Like I said before, since this is in the archives, our posts are less likely to be seen. If you want more exposure for your ideas, you'd be better off posting on that thread. I'll never censor you.

I'll recant a bit. I do see somewhat a connection between DeCamp and Gunderson, and by extension with Michael Aquino and others. This is where the satanic panic meets internet convolution. I do understand what you mean by not believing in a satanic panic. I just think we're looking at that phrase from different perspectives. Of course you believe there was criminal activity taking place at the McMartin Preschool. Thus, you see the satanic panic as what is referred to as a limited hangout used to cover up what you allege were real crimes.

There are logistical problems with getting to the bottom of Ted Gunderson's activities through the internet. The search engines are too cluttered with nonsense coming out of News Making News, Barbara Hartwell, etc..

What crimes do you allege Ted has gotten away with? I think it's important to always separate what we can prove from what we believe.

Debbie Nathan has offered for anyone to write to her with a request for the documents, and if you give her postage and copy costs, she says she'll send them. You might want to try that.

I hope this isn't too painful for you. At some point, it may be in your interest to let it go. I know this has been a big part of your life. But if it's still causing you pain, imho it's not worth it.

As for debating this story, I feel it's not in my interest to do so. People can easily find both sides of the argument and decide for themselves. I don't want you to take that as my saying don't post whatever you want to on this blog.

I mean, I could try to talk this out. For instance, Judy Johnson was definitely out there in regards to mental health. A lot of things got said that couldn't possibly have been true. Months ago, I was fully engrossed in this topic. But I've kind of moved on. This is why I'd much rather you make any additional posts on the new thread, That would force me to make posts in return, or enable any readers to see that this discussion has continued. I did link to this thread in the new one, so no problem there.

I'm very happy to hear your children are doing well. That's the most important thing at this point, along with you too experiencing some peace of mind and happiness.

I know about that name base proximity thingie you mention. I've seen that before. It doesn't really mean anything much more than that different names can be linked to as in links. For example, say I had a real name and was a bigger player for this subject area. For your page, I might be listed, even if we had never met through this blog. Or say there is a page for yourself. Ted would be there. Even people you aren't that directly related to, say for example Kee MacFarlane.

Thanks for the info that the LaRouchian guy visited your place years ago. They have been plugging the satanic ritual abuse/mkultra thingie for years. LaRouche and his organisation have been bizarre. I would not be surprised if he has been some kind of psyop worker for decades. One last thing I'm thinking, there's this guy Webster Tarpley who has been a host on the same disinfo radio network as Alex Jones. He also has been involved directly with LaRouche.

The new thread can be found here:

The McMartin Preschool Scandal Briefly Revisited and Free the West Memphis 3 Immediately

Take care.



Bonus Dialogue. Someone named Frieda showed up. Maybe she is a better example for when I mail it in concerning Sunstein's ideas about polarisation on the net and the need for cognitive infiltration. Jackie's her own cup of tea. She kind of transcends the internet, though she has been seen at a number of websites, from Jeff Well's disinfo Rigorous Intuition to the (Randi JREF) extra cheese debunking forum.
Frieda: To present another side of the case, there was evidence the children were abused at McMartin.

A New York Times article (4/13/85
Reporter’s Notebook: 6 Months of California Case By Robert Lindsey) stated that the prosecution would present 41 former children from the school and that almost all showed physical evidence of having been sexually abused with testimony from physicians.

After the trial, almost all of the jurors stated they believed the children had been abused. (Tapes of Children Decided the Case for Most Jurors L A Times 1/19/90)

Tunnels were found at McMartin.

Archaeological Investigations of the McMartin Preschool Site, Manhattan Beach, California

http://web.archive.org/web/20010123212200/members.cruzio.com/~ratf/McMartin.html/

The Dark Tunnels of McMartin
http://web.archive.org/web/20060426210043/http://www.geocities.com/kidhistory/mcmartin.htm

There is no evidence that Judy Johnson suffered from any psychological problems when she made the original accusations.

The trial lasted many years and produced several deadlocked jury counts. The case was very complex and hard fought on both sides.



Me: If you look closely at Frieda's post, you will see how believers seek to spread their cult centered around the idea of widespread ritual abuse. They want "their side" to have a veneer of respectability, that we're beyond talking about enigmas, that this unsubstantiated mess of tinfoil is legit.

Ok, what's next? Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake faked their deaths trying to sell some movie or whatnot? That's bullshit. The way Frieda and others present their schticks ditto.

Look at how the post is structured. It goes from the New York Times and blends into materials produced by the deluded. There's no way to converse with such clutter.

No link is given to where the NYT's part is from. There's no way to tell what is written from what may be plagiarised. The first link is from one of those whackjob type sra-mkultra centers like the one Neil Brick runs and probably acts as a referrer for crackpot psychologists.

I guess the deluded realise that no tunnels means the McMartins were railroaded. That's why they continue to make their fantasy world even more elaborate.

This is getting redundant. You can right click for new windows. Ever notice how believers of widespread satanic ritual abuse don't know how to make proper posts?

The underground "tunnels" of the McMartin Preschool


McMartin Preschool Tunnel Claims: Evidence of a Hoax


As for Judy Johnson, sorry, but she was a complete nutjob who set off the hysteria. Diaper rash or whatever is not child abuse. Putting innocent people in prison is one of the worst things society can do to its citizens. To newbies and fence-sitters, I recommend you seek out the best evidence, figure it out using critical thinking skills, then move on. I'm not saying forget about it completely. But when you see these types of responses by people like Frieda, you start to understand that while she technically isn't a troll, her post is technically troll spam.

Notes from an Interview with Judy Johnson


Satanic abuse and McMartin: a global village rumour by RICHARD WEBSTER (excerpt)

THE EVENTS WHICH LED to a full-scale satanic panic in California took place in Manhattan Beach during the summer of 1983. It was here that a thirty-eight-year-old mother, Judy Johnson, who was both devoutly religious and psychiatrically disturbed, concluded on the basis of no firm evidence that her two-year-old son had been anally abused at his daycare nursery by a male teacher. Her own anxieties were officially communicated to two hundred other parents and soon counsellors began to subject young children to a barrage of leading questions designed to elicit ‘disclosures’. Then, as Judy Johnson’s claims became increasingly bizarre, the word spread that the school at the centre of the panic – the McMartin Preschool – was actually the cover for a sex ring.

After a TV reporter had filed a sensational story on these Californian horrors an outside consultant was called in. He was none other than psychiatrist Lawrence Pazder. His theory that McMartin was the visible tip of a vast international satanic conspiracy was eagerly adopted by some parents and therapists and used to obtain yet more ‘disclosures’ from children. Before long the McMartin case had become a coast-to-coast TV sensation, and a full scale national satanic panic had been launched. (Eventually all charges against the accused in the McMartin case would be either rejected by a jury or dismissed.)



Frieda: The New York Times and L A Times articles are available at their websites. The information from them is accurate.

The next two websites are 1) a description of the tunnel report and 2) a legitimate journal article from Summit, an expert researching the case.

The websites you list are special interest websites promoting a slanted perspective on the case.

You have no evidence Johnson had any psychological problems when she made her accusations.

Critical thinking skills show there are two sides to this case.
This is why the case took many years to finish and had several hung juries.


My Response:

(image courtesy of http://nationalzoo.si.edu)


Frieda: You are right. I am done.
Hey, I didn't respond with don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out. Maybe I'm healing.


Tie the Satanic panic hysteria into Sunstein into the whiteysphere as a whole

This is easier done than said. It's fairly obvious. There is little academic give and take on the internet. Cass Sunstein speaks of polarisation preventing the free flow of factual information. I agree. I am a diehard fan of letting the reader decide. But when the net is full of troll spam, noise, and utter nonsense, it gets to be a real bore to keep picking out needles from haystacks.

Sunstein says infiltrate when necessary. If something's obviously bullshit, don't bother. But what Cass doesn't get is that disinfo fockers do the same thing. It's called astroturfing. Look at the loser named Jason Leopold who came out with his Rove indicted nonsense. It should have appeared obvious that he was full of it. But there were so many sock puppets and useful idiots kissing his ass. The same thing has been going on with Friedman and Alexandrovna and their Rove murdered Connell shit. One can't even cognitively infiltrate that crap. I tried. I got my ass booted. Sure, long term Friedman, Kimberlin, and the rest of the Lefty Liars Club is toast. For the short term however they march on.

There's no way to know how many with a healthy brain actually believe there is a satanic cult threat to society. But it certainly has been enough where innocent people continue to be imprisoned. There's Amanda Knox and the West Memphis 3.

There are also all those people with mental illness who are being suckered by those quack psychologists like Colin Ross. No one seems to care about them. I dropped a dime on one of them to a news station in Iowa. They never returned my email. I asked that lady who wrote a book on Susan Polk to check out my schtick. It seems she missed the big picture, that Susan was innocent due to reasons of insanity. I think what's her name figured Susan had been abused by Felix, one of those crackpot shrinks, but she failed to see the big story. Her word means nothing. She said she'd look into it, and she never did. That's another problem. Too many people are out to make a buck and aren't into the truth no matter what it is. That fits the definition of being a hack.

The satanic panic took off partly because of intellectual lightweights and hacks such as Geraldo Rivera and Oprah. Now pretty much most people probably think the satanic panic is history. It isn't. It has evolved into some form of internet disease. All I've tried to do is get the word out, just like a bunch of others have also. All we can do is create pockets of awareness.

As for my being somewhat rude to conspiracy theory freaks, I don't know what I can say. I believe they are just adding a lot of noise. People who know what's going on don't worry about it, because they know what to scroll past. I'm worried about the newbies and fence-sitters getting sidetracked.

Oprah and Geraldo own a lot of blame for this thing taking off in the first place. Check out this crap they peddled.


Vicki Polin-Jewish Satanic Ritual Abuse Survivor





4 comments:

bob said...

Whether "the tunnels" are reality or fantasy is irrelevant. They are a Red Herring. Even if there had been tunnels, that would in no way prove that any satanic ritual abuse alleged to have taken place within them, or anywhere else in that community, actually happened.

It is a fact that some child accusers in the McMartin case were manipulated/pressured into making false statements - by parents, therapists and investigators. Kyle Zirpolo was one of these, and he has described in detail the processes by which he was led to make false statements:
http://www.freejesse.net/LATimes/Introduction.htm

Jackie is correct, however, in stating that this does not mean NONE of the child accusers experienced real - everyday, "garden variety" - sexual abuse. That is certainly possible. If that was true, however, the hope of justice for such victims was destroyed BY THE SRA PANIC PROMOTERS whose BS fantasies were insinuated into child accuser's statements through a variety of social conduits.

This is something which the "ritual abuse advocacy" cultists continue to misconstrue & misrepresent. Some of us long-time skeptics are just as concerned about child abuse as the RA advocates claim to be. We speak out against the RA fantasies and the con-artists who promote them, BECAUSE we are concerned about child abuse and understand that SRA/NWO-Illuminati mind control BS destroys the hope of justice for any real victims who get manipulated into adding such nonsense to their real abuse history.

Jackie seems to "get" this sometimes, as in her understanding that Gunderson's paranoid "satanic cult" fantasies contributed to discrediting the whole McMartin case. On the other hand, Jackie is recognized by and acknowledge to be a leading RA "advocate" within that community - as evidenced by her being thanked by name in the Editor's Dedication of "Ritual Abuse in the twenty-first century" - which casts any skepticism she might profess on the topic in serious doubt.

caunli said...

Correct, Bob. In truth, the "fact" that kids were sexually abused is also a red herring.

This is a specific legal charge against specific people whose lives were completely ruined forever without any credible evidence of crime and much incredible nonsense passed off as "fact."

MacGauley said something very troubling when she brushed off the possibility that she was, y'know, wrong, by saying in effect "everybody in prison proclaims their innocence."

Nothwithstanding that this trite statement too is a red herring, or the fact that there are now known/thought to be a very large number of people incarcerated "in error," it belies the troubling frame of mind that has beset miiddle class, educated white Amerikkka since roughly the 1980s. This feeling of ease of evasion of any personal responsibility for anything whatsoever. Its all "their" fault and any non-sequitor at all will do in order to rationalize the most reprehensible acts, in this case the railroading of innocent people thru flawed law enforcement techniques promulgated by simplistic, hysterical reaction to events that are poorly understood and complex.

The sexual abuse could have come from anywhere by anyone. I don't recall but I believe there is police evidence that at least some of the kids were sexually abused?

Members of the Catholic Church appear to have been actively abusing kids throughout the time period. Could SRA have been a hysterical response in part to the unspeakable, the Priest as pedophilic sexual predator, which was not yet known to be a worldwide phenomenon?

The fact that MacGauley refuses to release the archeological report seems to confirm that that particular aspect of the story was udder nonsense. She clearly doesnt want the truth revealed from her own hand. I guess you cant blame her. Rather, "its incomplete."

Anonymous said...

Judy Johnson was never diagnosed Schizophrenic or with any other mental disorder.
She was into progressive ideas about natural medicine and didn't want to have her kids immunized.
Her older son had inoperable brain cancer and she never told me. Her brother told me at her funeral. I later taught at the High School where he was and the other teachers all told me he was "OK" He died about a year later.
My kids went to school with her other son but none of them talk about it.
Judy not only had the pressure of being part of the case, and her older son dying of cancer, but her husband left her for a younger woman. She and I were both newly divorced so we had that in common. We didn't talk about the case so much as our divorces and newly found condition of poverty caused by our EXes withholding financial and any other support.
I also talked to her father (Myrus who lived in the desert) a few times. He was a minister, Baptist i think. I came right out and asked about the things they were saying in court. There were simple explanations. The Defense is hired to make up lies to get their clients off. Facts about Judy were elaborated on and she was ridiculed and they even make up jokes about her that are now being repeated as fact. If you trace any of this back, you will get to FMSF or an FMSF associate.
Judy's ex decided he would call Social Services on her because, knowing her older son did not have long to live, she kept home from public school. After McMartin she understandably did not want to put her pre kindergarten son in another preschool (did you know 10 preschools were closed in our area by Social Services and were linked to McMartin?). I didn't put mine in preschool again either. So I went to the hearings for child custody with her and ultimately they took away her kids. The ex husband did not want them. The youngest went to Seattle to live with Judy's brother and the older lived with a neighbor, so she still had contact with them. So sad, she loved them so much. That's when she started drinking- no prozac in those days. Her Dad told me she was allergic to alcohol. She became violently ill, but couldn't cope with all that had happened. She was found dead in her little house that she had shared with her two boys. Her liver had given out.

socrates said...

Is there a reason for you being anonymous?

Where's your proof that Judy Johnson was never diagnosed with schizophrenia?

According to Time Magazine, "The film begins with the initial allegations leveled against McMartin's pasty-faced grandson Ray Buckey (Henry Thomas) by a mother later diagnosed as schizophrenic. Judy Johnson, portrayed in the film by Roberta Bassin as a dazed freak, insists that Buckey sodomized her 2 1/2-year-old son."

I'm also seeing through other sources, Judy Johnson apparently made similar allegations against her husband in addition to some other crazy is as crazy gets accusations.

(excerpt from one example) "...she said that her ex-husband had sodomized their son and the family dog, that her son had been injured by [an] elephant and lion during a school field trip, that her son had been tortured by teachers who put staples in his ears, nipples and tongue, and had put scissors in his eye. There was, of course, no physical evidence of any of this trauma. She was later diagnosed as suffering from acute paranoid-schizophrenia, was hospitalized and died at home of alcohol related liver disease before the trial began. Information of her mental illness was kept from the defense."


I'm not sure who you are, or if you're even who you claim to be.


A chunk of people are trying real hard to put lipstick on this pig, as if there was even a smidgen of merit to give to grotesque witchhunts taking place in this country, which were simply the result of satanic panic, i.e. mass hysteria.