This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Wednesday, March 10, 2010

The Johnny Gosch Tragedy

A blogger named BoyintheMachine showed up on one of the older threads to share a few thoughts on the Johnny Gosch story. He agrees that there appears to have been some kind of deliberately planted disinfo mess, with Noreen Gosch being victimised a second time. First she lost her son. Then she was preyed on by the likes of Ted Gunderson and others tied into promoting the satanic panic. He produced this video.


Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
BoyintheMachine said...

Thanks for blogging this.

Yes, I am adamant in my belief that Noreen was a victim. She surrounded herself with people who did not have her best interests in mind and people who filled her head with all kinds of conspiracy nonsense.

You tell me, if your son was kidnapped and Paul Bonacci told you that he was the one who kidnapped him and raped him, is befriending him going to be your next logical act?

Noreen was taken for a ride. I shake my head at the whole situation because it's so sad.

socrates said...

Hi BoyintheMachine,

Odd how an anonymous showed up for the first post to peddle discredited news reports claiming those photographs of tied and gagged boys were confirmed as including Johnny Gosch.

This is somewhat predictable behaviour. There is some group of people out there who are desperate to keep such a cruel hoax alive.

It's been known for a long time that Johnny Gosch wasn't in those photographs. That doesn't stop trolls like this showing up and posting their disinfo on this and other websites.

Former Detecive Nelson Zalva of Florida identified those boys, and their cases happened before Johnny Gosch went missing. I have decided to delete the anonymous post made above. Trolls like that are on a very short leash on this blog. There are plenty of discredited, tinfoil websites they can feel free to spread their rubbish.

It is a sad situation. I agree. I feel a lot of anger towards these disinfo elements who plug such things. The question is, why are these convoluted hoaxes ever created in the first place? Is this more about grifting, psyops, or some combination? I see that dude Nick Bryant is peddling a book and trying to make a movie based on the Franklin hoax. On the other hand, I understand that Gunderson was a bigwig FBI guy during the cointelpro era. I see that Michael Aquino was working psyops during his military days. A lot of things definitely don't pass the stink test.

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Socrates

The only reason I made my video was because my comments on a Noreen Gosch interview on YouTube were censored. I mean, I understand if I was using profane language, was vulgar, etc., but to censor simply because my view was that Noreen was a victim is just absurd.

I completely agree that those photos do no depict Johnny Gosch. The very first time I saw them my immediate thought was "staged". The expressions on the boys faces did not reflect, "Help Me! I'm being held against my will and burtally tortured and molested!". Instead, their faces gave the impression of, "We're playing a game!"

Unfortunately the photos were just one of the many cruel jokes or disinfo campaigns carried out against Noreen Gosch. The first was probably the phone calls that could never be verified. The second was probably the typed letter supposedly sent by Johnny. The third was the so-called visit by now adult Johnny one early morning, and for some strange reason Noreen just allowed him to leave, didn't call the cops and kept the whole thing secret from even Johnny's father. The fourth and latest cruel joke are the photos which Noreen claims are still being sent to her.

Not to mention Gunderson, Bonacci, and the many private investigators who worked with Noreen and convinced her of all this conspiracy nonsense.

Speaking of Bonacci...

Say Bonacci informs you that he kidnapped and raped your son. Is your next logical action going to be to befriend the perv? Noreen has been taken for a ride and for some strange reason she just can't bring herself to accept that these people she has surrounded herself with do not have her best interest in mind.

Assuming Bonacci is telling the truth about kidnapping and raping Johnny Gosch, did it never occur to Noreen that Bonacci may have simply acted alone? Nope, she believes he was "forced" to do what he did, despite the fact he is a sex offender. She thinks he's a victim.

Because I do believe that Noreen is indeed a victim of people whom I believe are acting to carry out their own agenda, I would hate to accuse her of anything but when I come across comments from people stating that had they been in control of the investigation that they would have started by digging up Noreen's yard then it surely makes you wonder.

I know I probably will get heat for this, but when Noreen claimed her son was alive and that she met him that pretty much right then and there closed the case for good. Was this visit purposefully planned with the knowledge that when she spilled the beans that the case would finally be laid to rest? -I don't know. But it wouldn't suprise me.

The Johnny Gosch case is full of so much drama, intruige, and utter silliness to provide the basis for a good dozen lifetime movies. And buried deep within it all is a 12 year-old boy that needs to come home.

Nick Bryant does have a documentary coming out titled, "A Carefuly Crafted Hoax"

or you can view the trailer here:

The uploader of the trailer on YouTube also censored my comments so be warned.

Probably the only reason I would consider reading the book is to learn more about "The Finders". I first heard about this back in 2006 or so and it seems as if there might be a story there but it deserves credible representation and not just rumor-mongering and "Won't Someone Think Of The Children"-style reporting.

The Finders (Scroll down to "No further information will be available")

socrates said...

I'm not big into censorship, but the first poster linked to two very outdated videos which have been debunked. Anyone can search for Johnny Gosch on youtube and be directed to those very same videos. I deleted the post, because I don't want people like that to feel welcomed on this blog. I'm not into suffering fools.

I wouldn't say those photos were staged. They were simply ones taken before Johnny disappeared and pertained to different cases. The strange part, imho, is that the disinfo went to that much trouble of finding real victim photos of someone looking similar enough to Johnny Gosch that Noreen was convinced of its validity.

I put Noreen in the Jackie McGauley category. Not paid disinfo. Just deluded and then manipulated by disinfo. Akin to the mentally ill who got convinced they had been victimised by govt. sponsored sra-mc cults.

The internet is a cesspool. You might have better luck hitting big libraries and making phone calls. You always have to consider the source when researching anything. Rigorous Intuition, your last link, is completely worthless as a source. Much of what is to be had on the net will lead to dead ends.

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Socrates,

I'm not a Rigorous Institution fan, just posted it due to the limited info ont the finders bit.

I agree about Noreen. She was taken for a ride and has invested far too much time, energy, and money into these whacky theories that she is way to invested to be able to back out gracefully. I fully believe she will go to her grave with the belief that Johnny is alive and well out there. Maybe that would be better than to have to face the cold hard fact that Johnny was likely murdered shortly after he was kidnapped. Sad, sad, story. I wonder if we will ever learn the truth about this case?

socrates said...

Sorry if I made it seem I was coming down on you for linking to RI. The Finders thing, I did look into it a bit. It seems to have been a small cult. I can try again to look for info. I guess I was just warning newbies and fence-sitters about how tough it is to find good sources.

I'm in total agreement with your take on Noreen Gosch. Her son was probably kidnapped, sexually abuse, and then murdered. It had nothing to do with the Franklin Hoax.

It's pretty bizarre how much convolution has been spun on that. Going by memory, I think Aquino was said to have been involved, I think Theresa Duncan fell for that one, and it became part of her psychosis.

I saw on many occasions at Democratic Underground and maybe also at RI where Jeff Wells kept plugging that since Bonacchi won some kind of civil tort decision, that was proof the overall story was true. However, the defendent never showed up. That's why he won. That's the way the law works. If one side doesn't show up, the other wins, even if a ham sandwich was involved. It's like those Judge Judy cases where one side has won, if they just keep their mouths shut.

And many would call Wells out with that point, but he never once countered it. He'd go into ignore mode. That's the same guy who was very close to nutjob Andy Stephenson. Both of them were at the forefront of spreading the myth Johnny Gosch was probably Jeff Gannon. Whether people like that were spreading such malarkey in order to plug crazy publishing houses or to sabotage democratic forums (freedom of association) or both, I don't know. We now know why Hal Turner was posting the shite he was- to draw out the crazies. Hal Turner was a form of modern day cointelpro. He covered the neonazi angle, the so-called Patriot Movement crowd. Perhaps others are involved in the same kind of thing, trying to draw out crazies, with simply variations in their approaches and content due to the fact that there is a wide spectrum of political views.

I don't think this story will ever be figured out. Too much time has passed. That's why the Amber Alert was instituted. When a child goes missing, and it wasn't the result of a disgruntled parent in a custody feud, time is of the essence to get that child back safely.

And I'm not saying there aren't pedophile rings, but I don't see any covert govt. involvement. That's nonsense, and there's no proof, none. Thanks for the posts.

bob said...


Excellent video! Thanks for going to the trouble of doing it & making it available on youtube.

The photos were not left on Noreen's doorstep. That was either a piece of journalistic license or a false claim by Noreen (I'm not certain which). The photos were sent to Noreen (and several other people) via email, by a Tim White - a Patriot Militia zealot associated with Ted Gunderson. You can get the full story of this plus the corroborating links, on the Websleuths website - cold case forums, "What happened to Johnny #4" thread.

About The Finders:
Note that, in the Customs report final page, Treasury Agent Ramon J Martinez states that the officer he was supposed to meet with was unavailable, and a THIRD PARTY then informed him that...yadayada "internal CIA matter..."

Who was this third party? Why didn't Martinez name them? Why would he take a third party's word on any of that?

The Finders case was "reopened" in 1993, by the Department of Justice, but still nothing prosecutably criminal could be found. Part of the 1993 investigation focused on: "reviewing the 1987 investigation into the group to determine whether that probe was closed improperly". Closed the CIA? or...closed improperly by MARTINEZ?

Ramon J Martinez was disciplined by the Treasury Department in 1994, while he was working internal affairs for them, for alerting a person under investigation to the fact of their being investigated:

socrates said...

Bob, that Tim White dude is totally bad news and fits into the "possibly cointelpro-like" file. I find that to be a different category than for opportunists like Kee MacFarlane or say another one for quack doctors like Polk, Braun, Hammond, Routley, and Colin Ross.

Here's the problem with trying to figure out a group like The Finders. If you google search, you're gonna get a lot of junk results, such as Godlike Productions and whatnot. If someone could put together a decent study on the truth of that group, it would be a worthy endeavour.

Here are a few links I found.

Finders 'Cult' Denies Satanic Rites Performed


Arrests for Child Abuse Spotlight the Finders

Then there is something like the next link which gives the CIA MK Ultra spin. Rick Ross is a guy I think is for real. He is an expert on verified cults. The RI crowd doesn't like him, because he doesn't suffer fools. He is mentioned in the top section, while if you scroll down, there is an "article" on the Finders.

Cults, Anti-Cultists, and the Cult of Intelligence

Rick Ross has a great website called It has a forum. It also has a lot of archived newspaper articles dealing with the satanic panic, cults, and related topics. This is probably a off-topic, but the first link below he provides a lot of criticism directed at himself. The second contains his responses to those people going after him. It looks like the Church of Scientology for one do not like Rick Ross. No relation to Colin.

Hall of Flames

Rick Ross Responds to his Critics

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Socrates

Yes, Aquino was accused of being a major player or customer, however you want to word it, in the so-called child prostitution ring, which is how satanism entered the topic. From that time on it has become a mainstay for believers who insist that not only were the children raped by powerful politicians but that they were also abused in satanic rituals. Don't even get me started on so-called "child auctions" at Area 51.

Yes it was a default judgement in favor of Bonacci because King was a no-show. The Judge clearly stated it was default judgement. This means the judgtment speaks nothing about the truthfulness of Bonacci's accusations, despite what believers in the conspiracy insist.

Yes, I'm a big of the Amber Alert which was invented in my home State. They even print out warnings at lottery terminals now that many convienence store clerks will tape on the counter.

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Bob

Noreen has indicated in many interviews that the photos were left on her doorstep.

If the photos weren't left on her doorstep, but were instead emailed to her then it would be a big hint that Noreen has a problem distinguishing reality from fantasy.

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Socrates

The Rick Ross website is wonderful.

The Satanic-Panic hysteris is a topic I am fascinated with and his website has come in handy time and again for me.

bob said...


Noreen Gosch has "a little problem" with thruthfulness. She isn't about to let reality get in the way of the story (her version of "the story of Johnny") she wants to tell.

Not only were the photos NOT left on her doorstep, she also lied to the press about WHEN she came into possession of them. This is from the Des Moines Register:

"The photos that surfaced this week were first sent to the Register by James Rothstein, a retired New York police detective who offered investigative assistance to Noreen Gosch. Rothstein said he was sent the photos by Noreen Gosch; a child-sex ring conspiracy theorist he knows; and Michael Corbin, a Colorado radio talk-show host who has done several programs on the Gosch case. Rothstein has acted as a criminal justice specialist for Corbin's show, "A Closer Look."

Noreen Gosch told the Register that she found the photos on her doorstep when she woke up Sunday morning. E-mail files of the photos, sent from Gosch to Rothstein, have a subject line that reads, "I got this tonight," and show the date sent as Aug. 26 (Saturday)".;wap2

Here is Tim White's claim to have sent the photos to Noreen, although he states a date of August 27...

"I am the one to first receive from Jimmy Gibson the FIRST 3 photos ever to be released of JOHNNY GOSCH since his kidnapping in Des Moines(Jimmy Gibson was in those too) and I then emailed those to Noreen Gosch,Jim Rothstein,Ted Gunderson,Michael Corbin,H Michael Sweeney,and John DeCamp--this happened on August 27,2006 and Noreen Gosch posted those first 3 photos the next day to her website..."

bob said...


I've been listening to your video again. I can't express how gratifying it is for me. Here you are, a person I've never met or knowingly conversed with on this topic in the past, yet you share many of my perceptions, doubts & suspicions about the case. That tells me, many of these things really are as blatantly obvious as they have appeared to me to be.

I got the same gratification from reading Socrates' writings on Satanic panic related topics. Saying to myself: "Yes...yes...yes,yes,yes!"
It helps to know there are other rational persons "out there".

The alleged kidnapped child auctions that private investigator Whelan supposedly was tipped that Johnny would be sold at, really boggle my mind. How people can believe that someone like Whelan, if they really possessed verifiable info on such a thing taking place, wouldn't take action to stop it - is beyond me. Even if he couldn't get law enforcement interested, there would have to be 50 other men in the same business in Nebraska/Iowa area - all of them holding gun permits - who would have happily helped him storm a "child auction" and apprehend the twisted f**s running it. Yes?

I've been working labor jobs since 1995. If I went to the union hall and announced I had definite knowledge of a child-sex-slave auction, I'd have no problem collecting 50 volunteers armed with anything from sledge hammers to shovels willing to risk their lives to stop such a horrific event.

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Bob

If you what you write about the photos is true then it makes sense as the wiki page for Johnny Gosch reads that some of the photos came from a website.

Also, I noticed on the AMW site, the info on Johnny Gosch differs from Noreen's story on several details. The info at the AMW site also implies the photos are not of Johhny Gosch, despite Noreen's claims.

BoyintheMachine said...

@ Bob

Not only that but what disturbs me is that if Noreen actually believed that these child auctions occured then why did she not contact authorities and let them investigate it? Instead she took out a second mortgage in order to have enough money to "buy back Johnny". It just seems so absurd. It all just further evidence, in my opinion, that Noreen was taken for a ride.

Anonymous said...


Obviously those pictures in the video clip are NOT Johnny Gosch. Neither are the many pictures on the website his mom is maintaining.

I find it disturbing that she keeps claiming her son is in those pictures as they are clearly of a different boy. There are about 1000 pictures of this boy and others tied like him which were made by a scout leader who goes by the online name of 'dingbat'. He used to post his pictures all over the net but has stopped because he was under investigation.

What I find most disturbing is that the mother is claiming that the boy n the pictures is het son and. Also: the guy posting the pictures must have tied boys up for years to gather that many pictures. He claims he was as old as those boys, but they are tied the same way in every picture, there are even pictures of the boys in motel rooms.

Just my two cents.

socrates said...

These trolls never give up. They continue to post crap with the intention of wasting everyone's time. Why can't this loser give even a drop of proof that someone with an alias of dingbat has been responsible for making hoax photographs of tied-up children? Is it because none exists?

There was that detective who noticed one photo had come from another case he had previously worked on. That hasn't stopped this idiot troll from saying otherwise.

This is the kind of post I wonder about whether it should be simply deleted or not.

It's probably one of those alternative reality game loser trolls. Picture it's Halloween and the punks are spreading toilet paper on trees and egging houses. Now picture every day is Halloween, and the neighbourhood is the internet. That is what's up with these trolls.

Just its two cents? More like its creative writing on display. There are a lot of mediocre minds out there, of people who never accomplished anything in schools, and now they think just because anyone can post on the internet, it's there turn to take the floor. I'm not an elitist. My point is, this deranged person doesn't have the ability to just be itself and make humble contributions. It doesn't have the skill to write things good enough to draw attention to its work. So it shows up on humble blogs like this one to leech off its energy. I'm not saying I'm a spectacular blogger. I'm fairly good, unique, whatever. What I am saying is I don't need dumbasses like this wasting my time or turning this blog into its own insider, twisted joke. People shouldn't post anything on the internet without "proof" to be looked at. ARG's or whatever those troll games are about are comprised of proverbial losers living in basements eating cheetohs.

Anonymous said...

Dear Socrates,

There was once a group of clubs on the internet called This site was full of tied up pictures of boys, including the pictures I mentioned. The boy was called Doug and the club owned by dingbat. He has since then been involved in and participated in several other clubs of forums on the internet. One example is the link posted on this forum:

Your own writing seems a display of creative writing, you have no idea of what is out there and have no clue about the pictures we are talking about. Noreen Gosch might have received those pictures or found them on the internet, but the fact remains: They are NOT her son!

The pictures I am referring to are NOT a hoax, they are pictures made by individuals who like seeing tied up boys on pictures. If you would have done some research before you posted so blatantly, you would be aware of the fact that there are many more pictures around the net of tied up kids.

The way you respond to people is outright ignorant, if you really want to make a difference, open your eyes to what goes on around you and on the internet.

Johnny Gosch's story is horrible, I feel bad for the mother, but disinformation als leads to trolls that abuse kids for personal gain not to get caught.

It looks like you do not really care about opinions and like writing a litte too much. You opened this blog/site and some people wat to give their input, all you do is try to make them look bad. You might want to seriously consider changing the way you go about this, maybe then you will find out that some people are really concerned and want to express concern regarding issues like these.

When you reply to a post next time, try to understand what is meant by the poster and answer their concerns or questions instead of babbling on like a coffehouse proletarian.

I feel sorry for you.

socrates said...

Some anonymous who knows all about perverted websites feels sorry for me. Wow.

It doesn't really give any info. It provides a link which explains nothing. It doesn't explain how and why any alleged faked photos of children tied up has anything to do with Johnny Gosch. It is a waste of time, and it should go away.

It said, "Noreen Gosch might have received those pictures or found them on the internet, but the fact remains: They are NOT her son!"

Duh! Tell us something we don't know. And she didn't find them on the internet. You're just showing how ignorant and troll-like you are. It then wrote, "Johnny Gosch's story is horrible, I feel bad for the mother, but disinformation als leads to trolls that abuse kids for personal gain not to get caught."

That doesn't even make sense. Go away loser. You are the disinformation. Any more posts from you will be deleted.

The photos sent to Noreen had nothing to do with any dumbass tie-up games or whatever the perverted it troll is babbling about. They were from a Florida case that occurred well before Johnny went missing.

DES MOINES, Iowa — The photos of bound and gagged boys that were sent to an Iowa woman whose son disappeared 24 years ago were investigated in the late 1970s and are not her missing son, a retired Florida sheriff’s investigator said Wednesday.

Nelson Zalva, who now works for the Hillsborough County, Fla., State Attorney’s Office, said he investigated the same photos while working for the county’s sheriff in 1978 or 1979.

“I remember this case,” he said. “I identified the kids portrayed in the photos. It was definitely investigated by me several years prior to the disappearance of Johnny Gosch.”

The photos were in an envelope left at the West Des Moines home of Johnny’s mother, Noreen Gosch, on Aug. 27....

Don Potochny said...

You have to wrap your arms around what transpired on the morning of September 5, 1982,at 6:00 in the morning, when the day is till dark.

Start with the dog. Please tell me who take a miniature dachshund on a paper route. Johnny already had is plate full, the mini dachshund does not make sense. If you need proof, live with one for a few days. The breed needs to be on a short leash during a walk, without any distractions for the walker.

I assume delivering newspapers has some level of distraction.


And not mini dachshund, or most other breeds, simply walks home, when varmints rule the dawn.

Greg Caliper said...

Anyone that is interested in solving this case needs to start from the beginning. Maybe manipulators did not take Noreen for a ride, but instead, Noreen took us for a ride. Ignore garbage like the Gannon and photos on Noreen's doorstep. Focus on the first 48 hours commencing at 6:00am on September 5, 1982. Read the Des Moines Register accounts of the first 48 hours.

Noreen was out there long before the manipulators made their presence known. Yes, she's crazy like a fox.

socrates said...

Why are you guys showing up over five years after this entry was originally posted? I think you're paid fakes!

Don Potochny said...

You thought wrong. Now, do the research and read the Des Moines Register news stories for the first two months after September 5, 1982. Do it! Otherwise you are nothing but another fake who works for lying Noreen.

Lenny Fritos said...

"Don Potochny said...
You thought wrong. Now, do the research and read the Des Moines Register news stories for the first two months after September 5, 1982. Do it! Otherwise you are nothing but another fake who works for lying Noreen."

You work SEO and marketing for kooky fake news sites? People need to grok that most of the junk on the internet is produced by the military-industrial complex and labeled as "conspiracy stories" in Edward Snowden documents. You clearly are wasting your time on a small blog that specialises in outing fake news. Anyway, you can go away. Not many are reading this page. No one believes you. There is no money behind my words, while a quick search shows that you make money off of the internet.

Lenny Fritos said...

You were here in 2015. Shall we expect another hit and run post in 2021? It took five seconds to figure out you have internet clients.