This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Saturday, June 19, 2010

Tomato Can Michael Rivero Beat On By The Last Bullwinkle Left

(Correction Update: In the comments I misnamed who the person is in TLNL's avatar. Unless I'm messing up again, it is Eric Morecambe, who used to be half of the successful comedic duo Morecambe and Wise. Sorry for any confusion.)

That's The Last Name Left's new avatar. I haven't a clue who that is, and for the purposes of this old school socrates entry, it really doesn't matter. If I had to guess, it's some idiotic comic out of England. Yikes, I just spoke of my username in the third person. I apologise.

Mike Rivero is a somewhat prominent nobody who is a regular guest of Alex Jones, himself a prominent, conspiracy theory freak. Rivero's been on the internet spewing garbage for around twenty years. Way back when he used to work for McDonnell Douglas. That was the #1 military contractor at that time. Mike likes to mention that he worked for both NASA and the film industry. He never has mentioned that he worked with the Military Industrial Complex. Feel free to scroll past his spam. The key is to look at his email address from 1992. was the email address for McDonnell Douglas M&E, Cypress CA. Mr. Rivero apparently used to work for the New World Order. As donkeytale would say, "Riotous!" After scrolling past his post, you can see his mutant ninja animator signature he's well-known for. Why doesn't Rivero ever explain this employment?

According to Tinoire, his bestest buddy who also despises the Joos, she worked for military intelligence. If these aren't proverbial disinfo agents, who are?

Tinoire posing with former Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. Hmmm. [/chin scratch]

Tinoire post kissing up to Reagan Republicans by claiming she worked for military intelligence. She like Rivero has never fully explained her work for the Military Industrial Complex.

Tinoire in on the goofy cybersmear script claiming myself and TLNL are the same person.

That script first emerged at Rivero's WRH Forum back in 2007. Here's screenshot proof of that. I saved a whole thread proving it. This is unavailable anywhere else. The forum was called the Unofficial WRH Forum, but it housed archives of Rivero's letters, and Mikey himself prominently linked to them on his front page before the whole thing got white walled. Jeff Wells of Rigorous Intuition would later ban TLNL for again allegedly being me. He is also close to Tinoire.

Tinoire's PI sponsoring Rivero's fascist conspiracy theory website

Anyone to the right of the brown line was advised not to sign up to Tinoire's fake commie website. She should have banned herself for promoting Mike Rivero.

I won't reinvent the wheel with this loser. I got some of the old business out of the way with those screenshots. Soon enough we will get to the Bullwinkle stuff. Rivero's track record is easy to figure out. He used to pimp for a white supremacy/milita rag called The Resister put out by the Special Forces Underground. For around 15 years, Rivero has been running What Really Happened. He's linked to and promoted neonazis such as Jeff Rense and Curtis Maynard.

Here's the deal. There should be sincere research, reflection, and dialogue concerning conflict in the Middle East. However, it should be grounded in reality and not be co-opted by losers like this for whatever reasons they spam their Evil Joos schtick. I do not support Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. But that's not the point. The bottom line is that there are a bunch of dumbasses like Rivero whose whole internet presence revolves around Holocaust denial and the demonisation of Israel and Jewish people. It's ok, in fact necessary, to take a tough approach to Israel in regards to what they do which is wrong. But Mike Rivero is not the one to be doing it! Of all the numbnuts on the net who appear to be proverbial paid fakes, he tops the list! He is the Palestinians' worst enemy. He does more than anyone to make it seem Israel is merely protecting herself. On to the Bullwinkle and Tomato Can Show.

So Rivero wrote a letter to the editor of a Hawaiian newspaper. TLNL as CurtOnTheRadio showed up to expose him as the fraud he is.

There is so much proof that Michael Rivero is either a nutjob, a disinfo agent, or a grifter, that there's not much need to say much more. Letting the reader decide is a beautiful thing.

One blogger Rivero has plugged has been this dude Curt Maynard. Rivero has a favourite article section, and TLNL found one written by Curt called I am a Holocaust denier and I am Unafraid.

I think Curt showed up here at DFQ2 to support Rivero. Or maybe that was at TLNL's blog or both of them. I can't remember. Anyway, through checking out Rivero getting beat up by Bullwinkle, one can find out that Rivero's racist buddy Maynard killed his family and himself. Wow!

Here's the story from KIAH-TV Houston, Texas
Police Investigating Lake Jackson Murder-Suicide
Kristy Gillentine, KIAH Staff KIAH
3:39 PM CDT, April 22, 2010

LAKE JACKSON - A battle between divorcees turned deadly Wednesday night in Lake Jackson when a man killed his ex-wife and wounded his ex-step-daughter, then killed himself, police said.

Neighbors reported hearing shots fired at about 8:20 p.m. Wednesday in the 100 block of Post Oak. While Lake Jackson Police were en route, they learned that two people had been shot and the shooter had fled in a vehicle that was being followed by one of the neighbors.

"This family had some really good neighbors," Lake Jackson Police Lt. Paul Kibodeaux said. "We got a lot of calls on this and were able to respond quickly and to the right locations thanks to their updates and information."

The pursuing neighbor led police to their location with updates on his cell phone, officials said. The chase ended when the shooter – identified as 42-year-old Curtis Maynard – turned the gun on himself while driving, police said.

Officials said Maynard's vehicle left the roadway, swerved back and struck another vehicle, then came to rest on the opposite side of the highway at 499 Highway 288 North.

Back at the home in the 100 block of Post Oak, investigators found two victims. Maynard's ex-wife – 34-year-old Melissa Meza – was dead with multiple gunshot wounds, police said. Meza's 16-year-old daughter was also shot. She was life-flighted to Memorial Hermann Hospital in critical condition, police said. According to officials, her condition had stabilized Thursday.

Two younger children of Meza and Maynard were also in the home. They ran to a neighbor's house when gunfire erupted and are now being cared for by family members, police said.

According to investigators, Maynard and Meza had been divorced for about one year and Maynard was unhappy with the situation.

"He was very unhappy with the divorce and how things were going for him, but as far as anything out of the ordinary recently, we haven't heard of anything." Kibodeaux said. "It's a very tragic situation, and very sad for the kids involved."

Copyright © 2010, KIAH-TV

The strangest part of blogging for me has probably been having gotten cybersmeared. I did get cyberstalked but not too much. I reported the email harassment, and it stopped. Sometimes I'll notice things on the net and ask wtf. On the new TLNL versus Rivero thread, one guy showing up attacking TLNL used the words schtick and then schlock. Now that could have been a coincidence, but only days earlier I had added schlock to the schtick. Now based on the documented, zany, cybersmear script that was put in place against myself and TLNL, I'm not so sure that was a coincidence. I think the disinfo numbnuts read every word here and even try to post on this blog from time to time. I think they do things like this to sow confusion with their readers. A few years back myself and TLNL thoroughly took care of Rivero. That's when the stupid script started at the WRH Forum. Like I said, it carried over to Tinoire's place and then Jeff Wells'. It used to bug the shit out of me, but now I no longer care. The main point is content provided transcends whomever myself, TLNL, and others are in real life.

While googling for info on Maynard's death, I ended up at a neonazi website called The Jewish Question.

I noticed the name Socrates as part of the tags for that blog.

If you go to that tag, there is nothing about myself nor of the real life, historic Socrates. There are simply links to something called Vanguard News Network. The whois says Vanguard News Network is run by Alex Linder. When I went to google and started plugging in his name, google suggested "alex linder is a jew." Basically within the neonazi zeitgeist, there are rumblings of their being fifth column infiltrators of the run for the hills, it's the Joos variety. The gist is we must definitely run for the hills, just beware of Joos faking as being anti-Joo. We are talking Major League convolution.

No Jews. Just Right. [/that's the ticket] is registered to a Mike Delaney. A quick google search brought me to some disturbing links.

The second "story" from that link is titled, "Mike Delaney of Prothink Denounces Ernst Zundel and Kevin Macdonald; Shills For Eric Hufschmidt."

It's basically a copy and paste from Curt Maynard's now unavailable blog.

My conclusion is that an attempt is being made to spin myself and TLNL as Megaphones (GIYUS) or Mossad. It's quite crazy stuff. But the thing is this carries no water for anyone other than those idiot neonazis who reside in this specific, internet milieu. My theory is that the attacks on us are not intended for mainstream newbies and lurkers, but only for hardcore, neonazi freaks.

Rivero's problem is he can't avoid the truth that he's part and parcel of that milieu. By extension, Alex Jones is also card carrying member of the Jooo Haters Club. Rivero's a guest of Alex Jones every month. Shame on you too Alex Jones.

Just take a look at some more of Rivero's favourite links, if one has any remaining doubts that he's pond scum.

Rivero linking to

Rivero can't escape the fact that he links to all sorts of neonazis, even both sides of neonazis opposing each other. Maybe that's the primary rabbit hole within the anti-semitic zeitgeist. Who's the Joo?

We are talking hardcore convolution that Rivero links to. He's even into presenting satanic panic as fact.

Mike linking to the Franklin Hoax as if it's truth.

Mike spinning the Holocaust as being brought on by the Jooos themselves.

Mike linking to some Holocaust denial centered around Auschwitz.

Mike insinuating that the Holocaust was first scripted as a hoax in 1919.

Those are just a few examples.

TLNL provided links at the Hawaiian news website for folks to check out. It would take less than five minutes for any reader to decide Mike Rivero is a disinfo piece of shit. Mike Rivero and his Willis Carto-Larouche schtick transcends any reasonable debate over Middle East politics.

Myself, TLNL, and some others have fought the good fight exposing this specific network of hate tools. Dang, one can see how this bullshit has infiltrated allegedly leftist blogs. As TLNL has recently blogged about Rivero's aligning himself with Iranian theocracy and other thugs, donkeytale confronted the same crap coming out of Pffugeeists like Failreft, LauraJohnny, Supergump, and StuPid. Myself and TLNL were able to show how Rivero, Tinoire, Jeff Wells, and Bradblog's Agent99 have been tied up with this bullshit zeitgeist, and for that, we got cyberzonked. Come on good readers, decide for yourselves. I'm not scared.

I've got to wrap up this diary. I very much ascribe to the idea that a nail can only be hammered in so much. The Hawaiian moderators clearly and quickly figured out due to the diligence of The Last Bullwinkle Left what the fock Michael Rivero truly represents.

Related bullshit links for anyone who wants to wade further into the muck:
Eric Hufschmid - Zionist Disinfo Agent Provocateur
Is White Nationalism a Jew PSYOP Run by Faggots, Wimps, and Fake Patriots?


Jews have funded and fostered lots of things to deceive, undo, enslave, and ultimately destroy Gentiles, so that they can bring in an ideal world under Israel’s antichrist. Most notably political ideals like anarchism, socialism, and communism; but also anti-Semitism and neo-Nazism to promote sympathy for their cause, which means it shouldn’t be too surprising to find that the racism of White Nationalism in the West has been fostered by them to attain similar ends.

Especially since Jews have also bought out and/or blackmailed the hypocrites, wimps, and faggots who are leaders of those movements, so they’ll put WhiteNationalism in an adverse light, and by that discourage any real attempt to pursue a political line that the Jews know is the best way to undo their evil global takeover agenda and its machinations....

This is the milieu Mike Rivero lives in. As TLNL has found out, such numbnuts are better served from not venturing out from their own turf. Rivero thought he could just show up at that Hawaiian website, do his thing, and promote his cause. The Last Bullwinkle Left showed him otherwise. Perhaps we have figured out who the historic troll truly is. That would be Mike Rivero of


the_last_name_left said...


You know, we haven't seen a single "troof-seeker" show-up and display even a remote ambivalence towards Rivero et al, have we? Like Alex Jones' krew, they are all seemingly totally set on the idea Rivero is a hero, honest, radical....etc.

Some troof-seekers? lol. Rather they're the sort of zombies that totalitarianism relies on.

I went through a load of places Rivero posted from today - all the blogs he posted. I tried posting at as many as I could --- almost without exception, it's moderated desertpeace, they pretend your comments make it.....

That desertpeace place....they must manufacture all their comments, apart from some a few specific named respondents. I have tried all sorts of ways to post at the place.....through numerous proxies....and whilst the comment appears at your present IP, if you change IP and check the page, the comment has gone. Every time. So how does anyone comment? They don't - they just make them up? Typical.

socrates said...

You're knocking the blog snot out of Mike Rivero. I see what you're up to over at your website.

A long time ago you told me how places like Desert Peace were deleting your posts yet you could still see them on your computer. It's true. I forget the company, but software was developed to do that. It was marketed as being a clean way to take care of trolling.

Someone should ask Rivero why he had an email address with McDonnell Douglas. Someone should ask him why he has an address listed with the PMC4-Bank Index crowd. Back in the day there was quite the hissy fit taking place, because the Mysterious S. Boyle was talking about that. Man, Rivero even tracked you down to Trausti to complain about your posts. What a whiney, nauseating fool he is.

And we can also tie that Lyndon Ladouche clone to Dandelion Publishing and thus a former Justice Department employee.

Rivero's been busted up pretty bad. Funny thing is if you look at him, he's nothing but a fat dweeb with a feminine voice. He should be careful. There are probably some neonazis out there who might think he is a Jooo infiltrator making the Whitey Movement look bad. Maybe that's why he lives in Hawaii.

socrates said...

I was googling a bit. Rivero in one interview said he was receiving 300 emails a day. I think it's fair to wonder if Rivero has been some form of anti-terrorist informant like Hal Turner.

I'm also briefly looking at a Curt Maynard article published by Rense, in which Curt wrote (excerpt):

"On December 20, 2007, after reading a post Bill White submitted on VNN insinuating that Ron Paul frequently met with so-called "racists," and "anti-Semites," at a restaurant in Washington DC, that I knew to be erroneous and written for no other reason than to harm Paul's campaign, I sent Michael Rivero of Whatreallyhappened.comsome information about Bill White that caused him to follow up on White's most recent lies concerning this alleged relationship, which also allegedly included a couple of unnamed members of Stormfront, an alleged White Nationalist forum that has convinced me over these last several months is like Bill White's website,, a Mossad front operation. What do you think Mike Rivero found?

Rivero found in a screen capture, that one of White's boys is tied in with Jewish activism via something known as Megaphone, a tool disseminated to Jewish Internet activists enabling them to profoundly effect the results of certain Internet polls deemed to be of interest to Israel and Zionism. It appears that one of White's [nee Weiss'] minions accidentally left his Megaphone icon on the screen capture, thus exposing him and White for what they really are, Jewish provocateurs, undoubtedly working for the ADL, SPLC or both! This reminds me of something a real Nazi named Goebbels' once said about desperate Jews:

"The Jews aren't always so clever as they would like themselves to believe. Whenever they are in danger they prove to be the stupidest devils.""

socrates said...

I smell a script with that GIYUS crap.

donkeytale said...

Rivero qualifies as a grifter, like Alex Jones, both making bank (I guess) off the CT schtick that fascinates the mentally lame and halt, along with questions of UFOs, the existence of God and sightings of BigFoot.

I suppose you could also toss in "Criss Angel - Mindfreak" and that other dewd who does Magic schtick on the street corner...can't think of his name.

Rivero is the quintessential "anonymouys nobody" but Alex Jones maybe a centimetre above nobodyness.

He is aligned with the Teabaggers, no?

Ron Paul, BTW is or was Curtis Maynard's congresswoman if Maynard lived and died in Lake Jackson.

To me, these are grifters, nouveau Limbaughs without the mass appeal.

Maybe someday they will make the big time, but doubt it.

They are righties but they are outsiders. Of course, outsiders when they become successful default to becoming "insiders."

I still hold out some hope that there enuff Amerikkkans who will see thru the Teabagg schtick before they can too much damage, altho the anti-stimulus sentiment thats sweeping Britain and other fascist zones of Europe as well as the thoroughly white southern crossified US looks to be a disaster in the making.

Wow. People are vile and they stupid. That goes right and left. I'm with you there dewd. Equal opportunity hater of both wings. I probably go a step further by acknowledging my own vile stupiddity.

Then again, the far left requires economic catastrophe on a vast scale to achieve any semblance of power. Trouble is, so does the far right.

Far out.

I think you guys need to hunt some new right woos left and/or fake left targets, more relevant, more au courant ones.

The only people who really take Jones and Rivero seriously are their versions of the ditto heads, who are hopelessly lost sheep many residing among the fake left, true, but who have no stroke and they have to get in line behind Limbaugh's version anyway, dont they, who number in the several millions of morons?

How about that Adrian Lamo guy, the weasel hacker who considers himself "far left" but then turned on the military intel dewd who fed the goods to Assange and then felt compelled to 'fess up to Lame-o?

WikiLeaks looks poised to released more of this guy's leaked documents, as soon as this week, so there's relevance and timeliness, too.

I'm not gonna do your homewerk for u but Greenwald is on it, as are the WaPo, Wired (who are connected to Lamo through a jornalist whose name I forget) and some other venues.

I'm sure you're all waiting for the Algeria-US football match with baited breath so I won't trouble youse guyz foy-da today.


socrates said...

I hear you on the grifter angle. But that Rivero was with McDonnell Douglas and Tinoire the fake commie was military intelligence are too juicy to make one not wonder about the possibility of there being proverbial disinfo-ness.

I also see your point that it'd be nice to come up with new material. We're risking turning into Francis Holland. He never shuts up about Moulitsas. Now he's making a big deal out of his sexuality. Francis, my friend, it's time to move on.

I also hear you on these guys being a variation of old-school paranormal schtick. I saw this movie called Nightmare Alley. The main character was a total confidence player like that guy who speaks to the dead on tv. Of course I forget his name. Right after prostitution for being the world's oldest profession is probably such shysters who use such tricks. Sylvia Browne is another one who should stfu.

I actually liked that street corner dude. He seems to at least try to do some old-school Houdini. I hope he made it out of that block of ice a-ok. I just googled. He's David Blaine.

I never heard of Adrian Lamo. Thanks for the suggestion.

Ah, he was recently institutionalised and found out he has Asperger's. linkage

Wow, so he snitched on The Collateral Murder leaker. That's not cool. He has now made himself one of the most hated people in a small sliver of the internet zeitgeist.

I'm just googling around to get a quick read on this.

Here's the Greenwald article you mentioned.

This is a limited hangout or something situation. The guy who leaked the video is a hero. Apparently Lame-o told Bradley Manning he was a journalist and fudged the info out of him.

So Manning will probably go to jail, and nothing will happen to the criminal soldiers? That's not justice.

Thanks for this Donkeytale. You're pretty good at sharing some stories worthy of being looked into.

I'm totally burnt out as a blogger. Getting into the satanic panic and Annette Appollo kind of rejuvenated me. I'm not going to quit, but I'm like KG, my best years are behind me, though I can occasionally show up for 20 points and 10 rebounds.

The good news is that Canadian Bob has finally figured out how to blog at DFQ2, so he should be able to add some fresh blood. I'll try too to come up with a good one, with a new slant, when I get my second wind.

socrates said...

I might of messed up with a double negative. It's too hot here to think straight. Look, Rivero and Tinoire worked for the Military Industrial Complex. That's got to count for something. That's as close to finding out that Hal Turner worked for the FBI as you can get. We're talking paystubs.

donkeytale said...

Assange acknowledges Manning without acknowledging him by hiring 3 lawyers for his defense

The bigger news is that Wikileaks is going to release more incriminating stuff allegedly provided by Manning this week.

donkeytale said...

Now, for a little socialist peacenikkkism

An 80% cut would yield taxpayers $560 billion per year in savings.

Hell, Barney Fag and Ron Paul (George and Ringo) only ask that $100 bil per year be cut, and of course thats DC sacrilege of the highest odor....

Paul is a tea party favourite, yet he's for cutting defense spending, Soc.

This is where Greenwald is going with his right woos left schtick of late.

You may abhor much of Paul's policy but some of it is right down the line.

Outside the official line.

Whats a fake lefty to do?

Ron Paul (George and Ringo) for the Republikkkan nom in 2012?

Get Tejano on the line, stat! We

donkeytale said...

Since I'm practicing at memorizing my linking skillz, (I usually forget them after a period of non-uses), here is a pdf of the study cited in the previous comment link

And dewd. Open up the comment threads to anonymous and anyone else.

Stop acting like a pussy.

Or are you not acting, Big Baby Bette?

the_last_name_left said...

Ron Paul wants to cut military spending, sure. What he never tells anyone is the downside - that it will make Americans poorer. What is the military for otherwise? It isn't to ensure socialism is it?

It's easy to imagine simply cutting military spending will make Americans better off by reducing their tax burden - but where does the income which pays tax come from? What will the effects on that oncome be if the military isn't operative? Not so easy to calculate -- and presumably, the military is serving material interest, not the sociopathic indulgences of maybe 200 years of different leaders and supporters representing particular if variable class interests.

The military is the backbone of American power: it's fallacious to imagine American power would remain without it. Cut the military by all means - I support it. But let's not pretend it will really make Americans better off?

Some friends of mine criticise my interests - "why not go for bigger targets than these yankee nuts?"

I think that mistakes the power these people have. I think it's a big mistake. These ideas are popular, and current. And they're growing.

Even in these conditions - which are propitious - socialism is getting nowhere. I'm incapable of adding anything to socialism as an intellectual structure....I'm no equal of Marx et what difference can I make there? None. And what does Marx's massive contribution add? Nothing atm. So what am I supposed to do? I know it's tedious to reread the obvious....about Rivero and Alex Jones. goal isn't invention, it's simply to provide a rebuttal. I don't see anyone else doing it much, really. And I don't suppose it will have any great effect.....but at least it's there. No-one can say it isn't. No-one can say I didn't I didn't try to provide it - not least me.

Egoism makes me wish I was a Marx, of course. But I ain't - and no-one reads him anyway.

socrates said...

Ok, I added anonymous, but I'd rather you sign in as donkeytale instead of the spam caption words. It's not like you didn't have to log in at the soapbloxes. It takes ten seconds.

That's actually why I had turned it off. It only takes 20 seconds for someone to sign up at Blogger.

Thanks for those links. I know the military won't get cut by 80%. It's called a bargaining strategy.

TLNL makes a good point too. Where are those cuts going to be made? What politician since Robert Reich has been devoted to job creation?

The lack of an economic turnaround is the only thing holding Obama back from a two-peat. The Dow Jones could reach 15,000,000, but if people are still out of work, he will be bounced out for a Republican.

We need a modern day civilian conservation corps. You create jobs while making Earth a nicer sight. A win-win. The money goes back into the economy. That was the premise of social security. It wouldn't take much to get us back on the right track.

I checked, and even The Boston Globe is covering the Collateral Murder story. That's a good sign that we're still breathing as a society.

I only skimmed the link from The Post concerning military cuts. That was written by Katrina vanden Heuvel. That's a sweet name. I think it moves when I say it in my head. I'm gonna google that broad. I remember her as being cute....

She is cute. She just has to be careful with the makeup.

You have a point that right and left coming together can be a good thing. It can also be a bad thing. Right woos left is a specific strategy of those grifters and others. It's also like you say refers to political triangulation.

Sure Ron Paul is ok on certain things. But he's still overall a nutjob. I guess he'd at least have political experience unlike when Ross Perot tried to crash the party. I think Obama could be the right man for the job, but he needs to step it up. He's no Bill Clinton so far.

I'm like TLNL in that I have my socialist, peacenik ideals, but I realise politics is the possibility of art. Wait, that didn't sound right. You know what I mean.

As for myself, TLNL, and a few others rubbing it in on Rivero and similar fools, you can't blame us. As TLNL wrote at his own blog, the examples of their hypocrisy is endless. We have been residing in a cottage industry milieu which is never in danger of running out of supplies.

As for TLNL, what I really want to know from him is who is that Bullwinkle dude. That's who I want to blog on. I'd like to blog once in a while on things that don't matter. Political and zeitgeist blogs are a predictable yawn. There's nothing wrong with mixing it up.

As for yourself, I am impressed with your providing some links. Doberman Pinche is good at doing that. Unfortunately, she never has much to say about them. Some like LauraJohn were better off when they didn't talk so much. Maybe that's Doberman Pinche's secret to blogging success. Don't say much. As for Assange, that dude rocks. Git it done! Stick it to the man.

the_last_name_left said...

donkeytale said...

So, Mr. Moose, what yur saying is keep the status quo because the MIC produces jobs, jobs, jobs?

Fair enuff, but then we should turn around and force the Euros and the Asians for whom we are wasting our resources "protecting" to pay us back and add in a tidy little profit margin, say six percent per annum for our efforts on your behalf. If you'all decline these terms, then its "ciao, baby..

You'll need to beef up your own defense and you'll be buying all of your then required for your defense state of the art killing tools from us anyway, so its all good.

Defense is a pure macroeconomic drain, regardless of the industries it supports. Now, producing and selling those goods to others who pay us in hard currency (that we havent already given them in the form of "aid") is the only way defense pays for itself.

Otherwise, cut back wasteful defense spending and re-allocate tax dollars to universal health care, states and local govts to support the social safety net until the economy emerges from recession and starts adding significant private sector job.

Anyway, as a Marxist you should welcome as much painful dislocation as possible for the masses in this shifting of state capital priorities and hope for the working class to rise up in armed struggle against its oppressors.

In a recession we need to spend more govt dollars but Obama is being thwarted even in that attempt, so yes, Socrates, while we are busy defending freedom from the scurrilous likes of Rivero and Jones, we are still loosing our lunch anyway as the economy looks to worsen and unemployment stays high while the states suffer in the ability to provide even a meagre safety net for the poor.

And yes, TLNL, the people will respond by voting in more and even worsely stupid Teabagg Republikkkans aided and abetted by Blue Dogg Demotards who will cut taxes, decrease social programs and spend more money on defense.

From the linked article:

"Add to that mix the oft-used argument -- especially potent in an economy with double-digit unemployment -- that defense cuts are a jobs killer, and the prospect for the broader debate Americans need and deserve are dim. Defense spending, however, is one of the worst ways to create jobs per dollar spent. It makes far more sense to cut an increasingly bloated Pentagon budget than to reduce much-needed investment in jobs, clean energy, transportation and support for state and local governments, all of which stimulate the economy much more efficiently and contribute more to our national recovery."

the_last_name_left said...

I'm completely in support of reducing military expenditure - I'm only pointing out that it's very rarely admitted such a policy will reduce american income - as it reduces american influence.

Hegemony needs heavy boots.

But I'm all for cutting military.

I'm never glad when conditions get worse - the idea that it raises class consciousness is a palliative only - not something I can be genuinely pleased about.

England are off to play Slovenia - do or die. S'later. :D

donkeytale said...

There are two possible future scenarios for a defense oriented economy and based on the history of empire neither looks good.

The US could continue and broaden its longterm overseas expansionary wars by taking over the natural resources of the countries it invades and controls, such as Iraq and Afghanistan, and either developing them for our own consumption or for the purpose of selling the rights to the Chinese, who have already done so in both countries to a limited extent.

This is the Roman Empire model, broadly expansionary and directly controlling, which failed in the long run but it was a very long run, as the requirements of maintaining empire slowly exhausted the ability of the city-state to maintain itself.

The second is the course we seem actually to be following, which is to grow and expend our military might at an unsustainable economic pace in order to fight off our perceived enemies and protect those countries under our protectorate. We do this simply because we perceive enemies and this is what we have done since WWII. Whether our perceived enemies pose a real threat is irrelevant, and yet they will defeat us by expanding our national paranoia to the point where we respond beyond all reason, thus hastening our economic demise.

See Union, Soviet.

socrates said...

Ah, so the guy in the bullwinkle outfit is a British talk show host named Michael Parkinson. I don't think I'll blog on him but am grateful to now know who he is.

Donkeytale, you pretty much summed up what is wrong with the American economic model and the psychology behind it.

Maybe I don't like to reinvent the wheel, as you believe there is nothing new under the sun. It's true. Max Weber figured this whole thing out a long time ago. The Protestant work ethic drove the US economy in the beginning. People were into being religious and frugal. He said that once that initial intent was lost, the result left us living in an iron cage.

The Collateral Murder story says it all. The ptb's are in a conniption, because "classified information" has been released. But let's look at what is really going on here. The Military-Industrial Complex has been busted time and time again commiting war crimes. A specific incident was leaked. A heinous crime was exposed.

National security is a big myth. It is the police blue code of silence taken up a million notches. Who is to police the police? Who can stop military crime, when trying to do so is arbitrarily labelled as criminal?

Legitimation crisis is a great phrase. It describes what is going on. The US flaunts itself as being the world's policemen, yet they commit war crimes. Many members of the previous administration should be in prison. Until no one is above the law is social reality, nothing will ever get better. This is why I am very cynical. Bush, Cheney, Rice, et al should be behind bars. And they're not. That sucks. It's tough to trust Obama or any of the Democrats for not pursuing that.

As for trollbusting Rivero and others not making much difference, I disagree. I do think we should mix it up more often. But like TLNL said, it's not like there have been many others doing what we did. It'd be one thing if either of us was tooting our own horns while making money off of blogging. But we don't. Some of the stuff we've come up with through perusing open source info is remarkable. There is a definite story here, Donkeytale.

It may not get covered. It may seem that we wasted our time. I sincerely believe people like us, Francis, Dave, and others were Assanges in our own way. You yourself has been one of us too. You definitely played a nice role in puncturing the bullshit balloon which is the blogosphere.

donkeytale said...

Where I disagree with both of yur takes re: the Rivero thing is that he is just a nobody.

Face it. TLNL overestimates Rivero's importance in the scheme of things in order to self-justify all the time he spends in pursuit.

This all may be remarkable, as you say, but its several notches below "important". Its like being great at playing video games. So what?

Its still just a diversion. Seen another way, you two are the ones who have actually been duped into a right woos left limited hangout and taken your eyes off truly important battles, like the one Assange is fighting:

Aim higher!

Thats all I'm saying. No need for you guys to defend yoursleves here at all. I agree with what you have done, I just disagree with the level of meaningfulness you posit on Rivero or Jones.


This is similar to DFQ who did some remarkable things against the PTB but then he got sidetracked into the UGOG thing, which was also a diversion from truly important matters. He got a few DKOS trolls banned. Big deal. Nothing changed.

As long as people remain sidetracked chasing two-bitters the big dollars are free to do what they want.

Bet on it.

In football news, both US and Blighty survived to the next round, although the US again had a goal taken away by the refs.

the_last_name_left said...

Face it. TLNL overestimates Rivero's importance in the scheme of things in order to self-justify all the time he spends in pursuit.

So why do I really do it then?

I don't think I'm under any illusions about Rivero/Jones et al -- they aren't massive, or especially influential atm, for sure, but I do believe they represent a significant constituency - more importantly, a potentially extremely dangerous one. They're also involved with my real interest - fascism. Liberals ain't. And there is an enormous amount of effort spent on "mainstream" as it is. It's already being done.....and imo people miss the danger posed by what Rivero and Jones represent.

Its like being great at playing video games. So what?

Hmm. lol. I put it higher than that, obviously, can have your opinion, even if it's a complacent one. Hopefully you're right....

Aim higher!

I'll aim where I like ;)

As long as people remain sidetracked chasing two-bitters the big dollars are free to do what they want.

hmmm - I don't think so. It's already being done, for one. I'm happy to add to numbers when they're needed - but I have no novel critique of Obama, the Tories, whatever. It's already being done...

I'm also of the opinion that stuff needs doing lower down....politics doesn't operate only at elite comes from the bottom up. Aim lower.

S: Ah, so the guy in the bullwinkle outfit is a British talk show host named Michael Parkinson. I don't think I'll blog on him but am grateful to now know who he is.

Oh y, Sherlock. :D

the_last_name_left said...

England won....but so did USA. Damn! That means England go into the other side of the knockout draw...meaning games against Germany, Argentina, Spain and Brazil rather than Paraguay, Japan, etc. Damn.

Good for the Yankee minnows though -- fairplay to the beginners.

socrates said...

Yes, Donkeytale is entitled to his opinion. Though it's ironic or rather riotous that he says covering Assange would make more sense. Uhm, I did. Guys like me and TLNL are not that one-dimensional.

Donkeytale's the bugger who gave out to me for blogging about state sponsored massacres in Nigeria. He was whining about having his entry on past relationships knocked off the front page. I do acknowledge that donkster can be self-depracating at times, an endearing quality, which gives him the right to critique others. But I think he is trying to downplay what we and others like Dave came up with, because that would take time and effort to understand. I will toot my own horn. I have come up with a great amount of good stuff, a lot of it original. [/There I said it. I thank me for this. p:>]

I just nailed a troll named Jim Houston on this archived thread, if anyone's interested.

It concerned the ludicrous arrest of Professor Gates from a couple years ago. Donkeytale is barking up the wrong tree if he thinks myself and TLNL are one-trick ponies.

Donk, I get what you're saying about Dave too. But he had no other option once he got banned and cybersmeared. If you go back to when Fingerit first went after him, it was over Dave's total takedown of Bill O'Reilly and other scum from and associated tov Long Island. Fingerit's also from Long Island. Hmmm. Just because you're not interested in the nooks and crannies of how major blogs have been exposed, that doesn't mean it wasn't an important thing to do.

TLNL, I watched a few clips of Parkinson doing various interviews. He was cool.

donkeytale said...

No, Socrates, "taking down" DKOS, if thats what you did, wasn't an important thing to do. Dave did important work on the streets and in the media. His work against Fingerit was totally inconsequential, other than as infotainment. He also, uhhh, died during the process. Was that death by internet, do you think? Was it worth dying over, do you think, if that was the case?

"Covering" Assange? Is that what I said you should do? Dont think so at all. Re-read and try for better level of comprehension.

TLNL - What you are doing is primarily because you find it enjoyable. What you are doing is a form of personal infotainment for its own sake. What you are doing is rationalizing that it is something more than that, which it is not.

Notice I'm not knocking your form of entertainment, not at all. I enjoy the same type of smackdowns, as Socrates here attests. And yes, the lower levels of the political world also need to be fumigated, but in politics that would mean taking on local politicos, not jousting with other small pot bloggers in online games of rhetorical gotcha.

Neither has Rivero been "taken down" actually, as he's still got a blog up, still appears on Alex Jones, still has his braind-dead audience largely intact, maybe growing for all I know. You guys aren't convincing me that you have these two-bit fascismos on the run simply by patting yourselves and each other on the back and praising each other about how "remarkable" you are and how "important" your patta cake playing is.

Sure, I've exposed some fake lefties too. It was fun. But it wasn't important or remarkable in any real world sense and nowhere will you see me make such self serving, pompous claims, except as a joke.

I did it because it was fun to best dumbasses in online debating games.

Which is what I'm saying about you guys. Drop the self-importance and enjoy the game as the joke it is and I'm right there with both of you.

Keep it in proper perspective.

Let the audience decide, as Socrates like to say....


And Dewd, I long ago busted your real motives for the cut 'n paste youtube activism on Nigeria, so why do you keep bringing it up and missing the point of my statements about it?

Still waiting for your important and remarkable follow-up to that effort, too, BTW.

The story and the issue are of course important, but not to you me or anyone else in the whiteysphere. Prima facie. You arent engaged in the issue at all, neither that day when you posted about it or anytime since, except to try and use it against me when you dont wike me cwiticisng your wittle fun and games..

Your cutnpaste youtube was not important work nor did it advance any understanding of any cause to anybody. Yur take on Nigeria is no more meaningful than any of Fairleft's takes on any of his pet subjects. Exactly the same, if you insist that you are somehow committed to a cause, just as he does so hypocritically.

Sorry dewds, you arent impressing me with your self-satisfied smugness.

Admit the games for what they are and I'm fine. Blow it up into some sort of fanciful and important work on behalf of "leftism" or whats even funnier "Marxism" and you are both as F.O.S, as any run of the mill fake lefties out there.

Exactly the same.

marksts said...

OTOH, maybe you guys are being tongue and cheek.

If thats the case, then so am I....carry on...


But remember, TLNL, the US is in the next round ahead of England.

WHy and how, I havent the foggiest....but we did get jobbed on the officiating...and if we had a better team I'm sure the officials would be working against us all the harder....lucky for us, no one here really gives a flip about futbol and our expectations are nil to th eextent we are paying any attention at all.

Socrates, the story is fake lefty Lame-o and ex-PFC Manning who is in the stockade, not Assange.

Assange was well-covered in the New Yorker recently.

socrates said...

I think Dave had a pre-existing condition. He may have also tried to lose too much weight in a short period of time. That being said, your point is well taken that it may have been a form of death by internet. Damn, I thought maybe I had coined that phrase. A quick google search shows it was used as early as 2007, though it doesn't appear to be a common phrase.

You're definitely entitled to your opinion. I think there's some truth to what you say, but there's also the chance the truth lies somewhere more in the middle. I'll give you an example. One of the disinfo pimps I went after was Brett Kimberlin and his dog face Brad Friedman. Granted, in the big picture, I didn't make that big a difference, but on another level, I might have saved people some money who may have otherwise been taken in by those confidence players.

Hey, it's common knowledge my reading comprehension is sub-par, thanks to the troll who promised to leave this blog if I didn't mention that hot blondie who won't be named. No need to rub it in. Maybe you can lay off of that, and I'll stop pointing out your sadistic tendencies. Just kidding or maybe not. It's fricken hot here. I'm sweating buckets.

Look, you make some hard to argue points about the futility of the internet. I admit that while I am all that, I don't supply bags of chips.

For what you're talking about, I have changed a bit. I don't take myself or blogging that seriously anymore. I do think we deserve a bit of a pat on the back however for kicking troll ass. I might have read my press clippings too much [/what?], but no way did I ever get to a Maryscott O'Connor or failreft level of self-importance.

Blogging can be fun. It's almost fun. I thank you for this.

People. People who need people are the luckiest people in the world.

I feel your pain.

socrates said...

Lame-o and Manning are the recent big story, but Assange's come up with legal counsel for Manning, and it'll be interesting what else gets released. No one likes a snitch. Check. Unless Manning can be proven to have some insidious reasons for what he did, the dude needs to be seen as a hero. The actual Collateral Murder story is also a big part of this too. It'll be a shame if that gets buried. But we all know how it works. It's like police brutality caught on tape. There's always some kind of fudge explanation. Did the dudes who beat on Rodney King ever get in trouble? I don't think so but am not sure. And if there had been some justice for Rodney, then maybe OJ wouldn't have gotten away with killing his wife or ex-wife and her friend. And of course you are back to signing in with spam caption words. Fricken sassafrassa, why I oughta.

socrates said...

Well, is Assange even an American? I don't think it'd be easy for the scum that be to prosecute him. As for Manning, maybe the point is this is a warning to anyone who even thinks of exposing things. There's obviously nothing democratic about the military. This is the essence of a legitimation crisis. War criminals get away with murder, while the person whistleblowing it gets thrown in the stockade. Though perhaps we need to wait and see what exactly Manning was up to. It seems kosher so far. But I'm sure the military will be able to cook something up. They own the military courts. And of course the US Supreme Court is slanted towards injustice also, imho.

pedical said...

I guess I must do your homewerk for you.

Assange is an Aussie.

socrates said...

I've had enough of your spamming usernames, so people are going to have to sign in with blogger to post. Maybe you should just quit the internet seeing that you hate it so much and think everyone including yourself is full of shit.

socrates said...

The spam caption words serve a purpose. You're using them does not. But it's rare for you to consider others' feelings. This is typical behaviour on your part.

socrates said...

Just because you don't have a clue what myself and TLNL have produced doesn't mean your putdowns have much merit. You're a very nasty person when you put your mind to it, which is quite often. Seek help.

the_last_name_left said...

Neither has Rivero been "taken down" actually, as he's still got a blog up, still appears on Alex Jones, still has his braind-dead audience largely intact, maybe growing for all I know. You guys aren't convincing me that you have these two-bit fascismos on the run simply by patting yourselves and each other on the back and praising each other about how "remarkable" you are and how "important" your patta cake playing is.

Show me where I claim any of this?

nowhere will you see me make such self serving, pompous claims, except as a joke.

ahow me where I make such claims?

your self-satisfied smugness.


Blow it up into some sort of fanciful and important work on behalf of "leftism" or whats even funnier "Marxism" and you are both as F.O.S, as any run of the mill fake lefties out there.


If your charge has any weight, you should find it easy to illustrate with no detective work necessary - so please do?

donkeytale said...

Socrates feelings get hurt by username choices?

Dewd, its truly time to get back into life.

TLNL-- yes, making the claims to importance, it wasnt you it was sockrates, how could anyone ever confuse you for him?


Good luck in the Dunkirk rematch against the dirty Krauts next week.

"Seek help" ?

You never fail to amuse with your projections, Scorates.

"Seek a life".

Later dewd.

socrates said...

You're a shithead poser. You make putdowns all the time, then when someone calls you on it, you don't even apologise. Then you make some wisecrack about me and TLNL sounding alike, and then you call me sock again as in sock puppets. You're a pervert. You're an ex-con according to your own words. I don't believe there's one person who likes you. You're scum. You came out with your stupid schtick one time too many and basically told both of us we haven't done shit for blogging. You have come up with nothing as a blogger. I was only being nice earlier saying you had. You're practically useless. If there's a hell, that's where you're going.

socrates said...

Yes, Rivero and Friedman, Alexandrovna, even Jason Leopold is still blogging. But they were thoroughly exposed. That was the point. Mr. doublespeak triangulator, pervert, ex-con, nasty sadist was just doing his standard disruptive shit.

socrates said...

Perversion and twisted logic from donkeytale (excerpts):

Most boyz have had gay sex with other boys or men before they are 13.

My own first experiences were at 12 were with a longtime neighborhood friend who was 15.

In the case of my Okie friend, he was the pursuer of gratfication from an adult when he was a minor.

Your mind set leads inexorably to bad law and criminalizes victimless activity.

That hot blond school teacher in Florida a few years back. She molested the 15 yr old boy? Wright....believe me if that was molestation, then I would desire plenty of that type of molestation. We both wished we could have been molested like that at 15, dont we?

I won't shed any tears if donkeytale slithers away. I tried to be friends with him. But I'm done. Some people are simply toxic. Being so is a sport to him. He knows what he's doing. He probably gets cheap thrills out of hurting others. The guy needs some serious counseling.

donkeytale said...

We should all seek help, Socrates, but some of us refuse to admit we have a problem.

"We" includes "you", "I" and "he" btw.

"We" are the eggmen....

Are you suffering from anosognosia?


socrates said...

Dude, that's one of the most boring links I've ever read. It's quite fitting for a troll to come up with something like that.

You're abrasive and have no tact in dialogue. You're not always bad. You're what's referred to as a functional troll.

The stuff myself and TLNL have worked on has been important. If you don't care about the topic, that's your prerogative. I'm personally sick of the mind games.

The love is gone. As much as you think what we uncovered and wrote is pointless, whatever you say is bouncing off of us and sticking to you.

socrates said...

You stink.

socrates said...

You wrote: "TLNL-- yes, making the claims to importance, it wasnt you it was sockrates, how could anyone ever confuse you for him?


You also wrote: "Blow it up into some sort of fanciful and important work on behalf of "leftism" or whats even funnier "Marxism" and you are both as F.O.S, as any run of the mill fake lefties out there."

Those are copy and pastes from the previous posts. You attacked TLNL and myself. It's your own words. Then you called me sockrates as in sock puppets and insinuated we sound alike. You're a no good creep. You should go back to the soapbloxes and have your petty dialogue with people more like yourself. Nasty. That's the legacy of Daily Kos and Democratic Underground. Nasty people like you.

socrates said...

There's more lefty in my pinky than you have in your whole hand. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. linkage

the_last_name_left said...

I thought you were kidding about Michael Parkinson. :D

The bullwinkle thing is Eric Morecambe, whom appeared on Michael Parkinson show a few times. ;)

Parky is good tho - his interviews with Ali are excellent. Richard Harris is good too, and Richard Burton.

socrates said...

No sorry, that was a stupid mistake. I'm not sure the sequence of how I ended up confusing Morecambe with Parkinson. Probably because Parkinson was such a big wig in his own right.

I wish you'd have corrected me. I'm funny like that. I'll make a mistake, but there's some type of internal alarm which goes off. I'll have an aha moment out of the blue. In this case it was that Parkinson doesn't look anywhere close to the comic in the bullwinkle suit.

In my defense, it's so hot and humid. There's no air conditioning in me flat. Buckets o'sweat trickle down me forehead.

socrates said...

I saw some of his interviews with Ali. Great stuff. Ali and Howard Cosell were good together too.