This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Saturday, July 10, 2010

NO PROJECT MONARCH = NO MONARCH VICTIMS



from Anomalies Resulting from MKULTRA
Experiments
by serial, internet nutjob Eleanor White.




Researcher and author H.P. Albarelli Jr. has made a seemingly definitive pronouncement about the alleged Project Monarch CIA mind-control project, on the Truthout website - it never existed:

"I researched the CIA's programs for over 17 years.
As far as I could see and find, there is/was no Monarch project. Indeed, I was told by the fellow who first wrote about it that it was a fabricated project on his part and that he has regretted the creation for years. It is not necessary to make MKULTRA and Artichoke any worse than they were. They were absolutely horrible programs and the attempts to embellish them with made-up projects is not helpful or needed. In fact, it readily serves the Agency's disinformation objectives to scatter this fabricated disinfo dust over the real story".

There never was a Project Monarch, which means that there never were any Project Monarch victims/survivors. Any persons who have been claiming that they are Project Monarch mind-control survivors are either deluded or plain liars.

Kathleen Sullivan - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

Paul Bonacci - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

Cathleen Ann O'Brien - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

Cisco Wheeler - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

Sue Ford - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

Polly Cunningham - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

Annie McKenna - not a mind-control victim, just another liar

and no doubt many others.

Why you should avoid ritual abuse/mind-control survivor claimants:

RA-MC survivor claimants seem to have a strong attraction for sites & forums

involving "weirdness" subject matter - from UFOs to psychic stuff to unsolved mysteries, etc. The likelihood of finding other, sympathetic conspiracy theorists on such sites would be one reason of course but there may be more going on.

Having "weird", "strange", unexplained or unexplainable experiences - especially in childhood years - is actually quite common.

So is the inability to recall portions of your childhood clearly or in detail. (Actually, an ability to recall every moment of your experience from the age of say 4 years old, would be extremely unusual) . "Lost time" experiences, as a child or as an adult, are also more common than most people realize.

There are many ways to interpret these bizarre, mysterious episodes in our lives, or the impression of having "lost" time or blocked memory. RA-MC evangelists hang out in places where such personal episodes are likely to be discussed, in part because they have a specific interpretation/explanation for such experiences that they wish to "educate" others about (really, seduce others into adopting).

It's only a matter of interpretation, you see. The same experiences that an average person may have had, that they occaisionally wonder about but aren't really troubled by - when given the RA-MC interpretation - may slowly (or suddenly) take on sinister, malevolent tones. This may turn these memories into troubling ones, a cause for concern & worry where before they were not, and turn them into the subject of obsessive contemplation. Lengthy contemplation of the RA-MC interpretation and its sinister implications can lead to fantasizing extensions to the original memory, generating further doubt about the person's memory, the life history they have always believed to be truth about themselves, even "who they really are" or the nature of reality itself. The RA-MC evangelist will be happy to discuss all this with the target person, to "help" them of course, to guide them into uncovering "the truth" about themselves and their unexplained experience(s). For example, they might strongly suggest that "lost time" is always a symptom of dissociative disorders, and recommend the person go see a therapist who specializes in placing RA-MC explanations on all "symptoms" - so they can treat RA-MC "survivors" that they've actually helped to "create" in the first place.




MKULTRA child

from MK-ULTRA Mind Control: Clinton Apology, Victim Testimony and More by nutjob website called puppetgov.com. The original link is no longer working, not even through archive.org.



Twisted alternate reality games:

Most ritual abuse/mind-control survivor claimants habitually attempt to generate a twisted social "game" in whatever social environments they spend a lot of time within. This game involves converting their personal history fantasies into your reality. They do this, because they have constructed a fantasy life history & one or more alternate personas that they wish to "live out" in their daily lives. In order to do this successfully, they need to incorporate the people around them into "characters" enacting roles from their personal alternate reality narrative.

They may attempt to seduce you into accepting that their personal fantasy scenarios, however bizarre and unlikely they may sound, are in fact the true (but hidden/suppressed) reality. Acceptance on your part won't exempt you from the nastier manifestations of their role-playing however. Even if you accept their fantasies and they call you a friend, you may still find yourself experiencing; bizarre and threatening phone calls/emails at all hours of the day or night, apparent surveillance or stalkers, calls or emails to your employer/co-workers/family members/friends anonymously denouncing you as a "perp" or "a handler" or a CIA operative, bizarre online stalking, or many other forms of abusive, threatening, disquieting events.

These things may happen to you, because the RA-MC survivor claimant(s) in your life (and/or members of their survivor cult community networks) need to make their personal conspiracy fantasies a reality in your life. Even though you are their "friend", they may pursue this without apparent conscience - they have an array of rationalizations for involving you in such live-action roleplay without your consent; it's the work of a naughty or malevolent "alter" personality, some of their alters are "still in the cult" on Mondays & Wednesdays, some of their alters are active "perps", it really is "the cultists" or the CIA doing these things to you, other members of your social circle must secretly be perps or agents, you are really an RA-MC survivor yourself but just haven't "broken out" and remembered who you really are, etc. etc.

41 comments:

socrates said...

Thanks for your essay. I have a number of thoughts, and it could take some time to work them through into some coherence.

It's fairly obvious that nearly everything written on the net concerning MK Ultra is disinfo lies. It's quite obvious within this area linked to things like the Franklin Hoax and crazy milieus such as Rigorous Intuition. It doesn't take much effort to have full confidence that bloggers such as Jeff Wells and his close friend, the late Andy Stephenson of the "election integrity" milieu are completely full o'shite schnitzel. By the way, I know I can get redundant, apologies in advance, but Andy was also close to other zeitgeist fabricators named Brad Friedman, Brett Kimberlin, and Larisa Alexandrovna.

There is a truth to all this. It is that crazy fockers and confidence men have joined forces. I believe we and many others can see directly through this circus the same way one can be enlightened about what really has gone down with the satanic panic.

I found the quote at Truthout by H.P. Albarelli. He also says that witness accounts are important, and that the most credible one appears to be by a Sally Hartman. Thus, perhaps we need to look into this Hartman lady. I also wonder wtf he was talking about with the coining of "Project Monarch" by someone who now regrets it. Who was that person, if this is true? Who is this Albarelli person, and why should he be listened to?

As for your second half opining on certain individuals sadistically gaming forums, I agree. However, I think this is done with quite a number of topics and is not exclusive to the satanic ritual abuse, mind control milieu.

Then there is the difficulty of pinning such trolls down. There's no way to know whether they are insane and actually believe what they write, or if they are some form of sociopath getting kicks out of trying to hurt others. There's also the third possibility they are proverbial, disinfo fockers.

I'll add more posts to this thread as soon as I figure out wtf I'm on about. This has been the skeleton of my initial response. Your entry here has definitely been thought provoking and provides focal points by which to perhaps become more grounded in understanding a select number of topics. There is a social reality. That I am sure of. When the noise to signal ratio is lowered to near zero, that is when I believe the internet can be a positive force.

I sincerely believe disinfo and blatant attempts at creating disruption and chaos can be neutralised even destroyed. Yet, that can only be done on turf not controlled by such cretins.

bob said...

Socrates said:
"found the quote at Truthout by H.P. Albarelli. He also says that witness accounts are important, and that the most credible one appears to be by a Sally Hartman. Thus, perhaps we need to look into this Hartman lady. I also wonder wtf he was talking about with the coining of "Project Monarch" by someone who now regrets it. Who was that person, if this is true? Who is this Albarelli person, and why should he be listened to?"

Albarelli is an "investigative journalist", not a serious intelligence research scholar. Many CT fans automatically discount whatever serious intelligence research scholars say, assuming them to necessarily be disinfo agents. CT fans seem to prefer investigative journalists and private investigators as sources. Albarelli's book is published by conspiracy publisher Trineday, so he garners some respect from CT believers. So, although the non-existence of Monarch has been known for a long time, Albarelli's statement about it will be accepted as definitive by many persons who would not accept that truth from other sources.

"Project Monarch" seems to be largely the invention of Cathy O'Brien and her husband, Mark Phillips. According to Martin Cannon:

http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/Cannon_3.pdf

"Just to make matters pluperfectly surreal, Mark Phillips has privately admitted to at least one researcher that he (Phillips) concocted the name "Project Monarch" just to see who would pick it up."

I'm of two minds about Albarelli. He's not a scholar, he sometimes employs dubious sounding sources that he refuses to identify, other times his documentation is pretty solid. His association with Trine Day suggests that he may ultimately be a sensationalist CT "journalist", but on the other hand he has the balls to call obvious fakes what they are - such as Monarch and "gang-stalking".

socrates said...

One major problem I have with Albarelli is that he is posting at Truthout, a website with no credibility. That's the one which published Jason Leopold's schlickety schlock about Rove being indicted. Of course there's then the close connections between Leopold to Alexandrovna and Friedman and the rest of what Anonymous Army referred to as the Lefty Liars Club.


I found The Strange Story of Sally Hartman by this Albarelli dude. I'm skimming through it. I want to know who the F this guy is, and why he believes Hartman's account is credible.

Ok, if we can find a way to verify Albarelli as credible, this could be useful, despite his association to Truthout.

Sally Hartman is a pseudonym. Albarelli says he confirmed her husband's employment with the CIA. He says Hartman also worked for an intelligence agency, the NSA.

This has to be one of the strangest articles I've ever read. The gist is she was drugged by her husband's CIA chemist boss and used as a guinea pig.

Sometime after 1966, Hartman claims while in some trance like state, she remembers an Asian looking man looking down on her saying everything was fine. Uhm, for anyone who has seen The Manchurian Candidate, they know the chief mind control culprits were Asian. That movie came out in 1959.

I admit this story makes somewhat sense. My take on MK Ultra is it was about creating a truth syrum by breaking down one's defenses through LSD and other drugs.

It makes sense that the CIA would try to create a version of satanic panic pertaining to mind control, to make a mockery out of any attempts to get to the truth about MK Ultra. Though I'm making that comment, not Albarelli. This might explain how all these other nutjobs showed up on the scene. Thousands of fakes could be created as thousands of rabbit holes. From what I understand, most MK Ultra documents were destroyed. It would have been hard enough to figure it out because of that. Add in all these mentally ill patients coaxed into believing they are part of the hoax and then disseminate those "accounts" then figuring out the social reality behind MK Ultra becomes extra dicey. That's not even getting into grifter liars who serve as useful idiots by selling books, psychiatric services, and whatnot.

I get Albarelli's basic premise, but I think he's just trying to sell books. At worst, he is a proverbial disinfo agent.

I've a feeling this guy is some kind of crock. Here it's said he did interviews with Jack Blood of American Freedom Radio. But when you click on the link, you get an error page. I'm not seeing why it's so tough to find the interview. Has it been deleted?

My gut tells me this Albarelli guy is an outright fraud.

I now see through basic googler searches, he's been making the rounds all over the National Tinfoil Network.

I see he is saying some mysterious disease is linked to a missing Israeli scientist. Run for the hills, it's the Joooos? Controlled opposition to obvious dingbats like Jeff Wells?

Hank Albarelli smells bad.

socrates said...

I missed your post before writing my last response.

So Mark Phillips is a source of Albarelli's? That sounds dodgy. Plus, I won't hold it against you for being unaware of Albarelli's warts, which I just listed a few.

Like I said, Albarelli on the surface makes sense with the comment he made. But Truthout is a joke. All these places Albarelli is making the rounds at are a joke. And I don't see how an "investigative journalist" is able to get such alleged confirmations pertaining to CIA personnel.

I also see you zapped one of the troll's posts. I was unaware blog authors could do that. Do you have that ability on threads you didn't start? I'm just curious. If so, please don't delete posts on those threads. If you have a problem with one, let me know. I can also put you on a mailing list to see every post that gets sent to DFQ2. Then you can see what I'm up to as a moderator and influence that process.

I definitely have no problem with you moderating your own threads.

That troll is a perfect example of part of your entry. I don't understand why it just doesn't go away. No one cares about what it thinks or anything about his backwash blogs. As you informed me the other day, even DE took him or her to the woodshed.

The problem with such a troll and most of them is there's no absolute way to discern wtf its motives and background are. It could be insane and think it's making moral additions. It could be a semi-mentally disturbed individual who is into trying to make others squirm.

I think the reason it's best to zap it on sight is precisely because there are real internet personalities who need to be exposed, while this one is strictly some anonymous maggot who ultimately desires for its backwash blogs to be mentioned. Thus, there becomes a need to zap it. It's not like the thing can be interacted with rationally. It is obviously out to cause pain. I don't get why it continues to camp out here. There are a gazillion number of websites it can spent its time at. So why here?

I'm sorry you have become its target also. You are going through exactly the kind of thing I did, though I'd say my experience was much more in the spotlight. I guess that's what happens in proportion to the amount one blogs, when they blog the way we do. You successfully going after Nick Bryant at Amazon along with your other good efforts at exposing other nonsense has opened yourself up to that kind of troll cybersmear campaign.

bob said...

I'm not saying that Albarelli is necessarily credible to ME personally. I chose to characterize his pronouncement on the never-existence of Monarch as "definitive" because it has been accepted that way on some forums where fraudulent Monarch claimants have been welcomed.

I do like what he says at the beginning of the Sally Hartman piece. He speaks truth, at least for a few paragraphs:

"Over the past 15 years, while working on "A TERRIBLE MISTAKE," and after, about two-dozen people separately contacted me wanting to share their experiences as victims of CIA mind-control projects"

"Another victim, who has written a slew of articles about various government activities, told me he had been selected years ago as part of a deep-black project that involved his mind being constantly bombarded with electro-waves of some sort. When I attempted to ask him specific questions about why he and others had been targeted by the CIA, he grew angry and said, "The technology I'm being subjected to is much farther advanced than you know. The experiences I mentioned were pretty elementary. If you don't get that, how can you understand what a target of the technology is going through?" I wanted to reply that his answer had little to do with my question, but I also realized that arguing with self-proclaimed mind-control victims was tantamount to arguing religion with a zealot"

BINGO! "...arguing with self-proclaimed mind-control victims was tantamount to arguing religion with a zealot" - that is truth. Hand the man his Kewpie doll.

bob said...

"Another woman told me the CIA had targeted her for mind control when she worked for the State Department. She claimed she had been transformed into an unwitting, programmed assassin and that she was convinced she had actually murdered several foreign diplomats overseas. I asked her for the names of some of these diplomats and she told me that they had been erased from her memory. Could you tell me what countries you worked in? I asked her. "No," she said. "That is a matter of national security." Well then how can I verify your claims? I asked. Can you at least show me proof you work for the government? "No," she said, "you have to trust me. Why would I lie about such a thing?""

"I don't know what provokes some people to invent situations that they claim to be true, situations and stories that I am convinced they actually came to believe themselves over time...
but I had little inclination to pursue most of the stories people came to me with. There were several reasons for this. The principle reason was that I simply did not believe these people. Their stories were riddled with clear-cut factual inaccuracies, ridiculous instances, erroneous statements and claims I knew would be impossible to prove".

CLANG! "I simply did not believe these people. Their stories were riddled with clear-cut factual inaccuracies, ridiculous instances, erroneous statements and claims I knew would be impossible to prove"
- more TRUTH.

"I am most concerned with objective evidence and facts. I can't settle for the explanation or argument, "Trust me, I'm telling the God's honest truth."

Yea verily, the man speaketh truth.

Sorry about not consulting you on the zap. It was reflexive :) I felt that I was following your lead.

That troll, I believe, is an example of what happens to these social alternate reality gameplayers when they cannot find anyone to validate their fantasy self by playing along. If they can sucker even ONE person into investing some level of belief in their fantasy persona, they can sustain the illusion that their fantasy represents "true" reality, in their own minds. If they are totally ignored, their world starts to collapse and they get desperate and angry, lashing out - "BELIEVE IN ME, dammit!"

I'm not troubled by having attracted some of these. They are pitiable and powerless.

socrates said...

I hear you. When I started my first forum, I used to moderate with an iron fist in regards to tinfoil by association. I used to toss anyone who went anywhere near craziness. I'm no longer like that. If I was, many comments on this blog would have been zapped. On one thread e.g., someone called gang stalking put up his junk. I didn't delete it. I told him or her to take his tinfoil elsewhere. Yet if it persisted, that's when I feel it needs to be classified as troll spam.

I probably wouldn't have deleted it at the other forum either, but I most certainly would have banned the person. Blogger is a whole other animal, where people don't have to register to post.

Albarelli has no problem associating himself with tinfoilers. I guess that's my only point. I don't respect that. I'm also not feeling much motivation to "investigate" his schtick.

Your point is well taken. Who wants to listen to circular reasoning, so-called preaching to the choir? Especially when it's tied to the dumbass Patriot Internet Movement.

Facts are good. Even coming to conclusions is fine too, even if they cannot be proven without a shadow of a doubt. It's like one cannot ultimately disprove a negative, unless it's of the moon is made out of cheese variety. Dumbasses can go on and on about government sponsored satanic activities, and even though there is no proof of such, it's impossible to ever totally dismiss the possibility. There was a Nazi Germany after all. My theory is that this specific conspiracy idea was created as a psyop. There's the chance that Gunderson and Aquino were being nutjobs on their own time, but that seems too much of a coincidence that Gunderson was a bigwig FBI dude during cointelpro and Aquino worked for psychological operations.

Nonetheless, I definitely am sure there isn't one. Even Albarelli's Sally Hartman example is lame. We know there was an MK Ultra. We pretty much know it was basically about a sick attempt to create a truth serum. The mind control part is dodgy. The manchurian candidate angle is incredibly stupid. Now for sure, the attempt at creating a truth serum was a form of trying to control minds. But that's nothing compared to how the tinfoil crowd tries to spin it.


I think you nailed it concerning the troll. It is looking for attention. It is looking to be a part of something. This place has touched on some topics it has been interested in. There aren't many of those. It isn't liked by the RI crowd. It most certainly isn't wanted here. It is incapable of preventing itself from writing sadistic posts, once it feels it has been ignored or wronged.

socrates said...

On the Martin Cannon angle- I checked out what he wrote. He concluded that Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips did not invent the idea of a Project Monarch. He did write what you posted about an alleged confession. But he followed that up with this:


At this point, an honest investigator can only feel aggravated and dispirited. Which may be the entire point of this charade. In fact, ritual abuse claimants throughout the Country had spoken darkly of a "Project Monarch" well before Mark and Cathy came on the scene. Now, skeptics can posit that Mark Phillips contaminated the testimony of others, even though the chronology argues against this scenario. As mentioned previously, the essential idea behind the Monarch theory seems "do-able". And to be fair, Mark and Cathy never seemed to be "in it for the money". In fact, they spent a tremendous amount on their mailings while the potential for libel suits placed them at some financial risk. I doubt that sales of their book (published by a small firm and undistributed, so far, in the larger stores) will fetch them much monetary benefit. How, then, do we assess their claims? Some believe that Cathy's testimony is essentially true, while others damn it as a pack of lies. Still others suspect that Mark and Cathy have played out a clever disinformation gambit, mixing fact and fiction in order to discredit any genuine victims who "break program".


By the way, that is the same Martin Cannon who wrote the cannonfire blog and also worked for Brad Friedman and in general was part and parcel of the Lefty Liars zeitgeist.

His take was almost the same as Albarelli's, though the big difference is Cannon is saying Project Monarch was probably for real.

I'd also like to add that Cannon has been pimping the News Making News website for years as a top link on his blogroll.

When I learned of the Rachel Begley story, it got me looking into NMN. For some odd reason, reesejones.com redirects to NMN. That guy is a big player with IT and other areas. He also married the lady who owns the One Taste Cult in the San Francisco area. The two ladies operating NMN are into some crazy stuff themselves. Kate Dixon was a disgraced, disbarred attorney who had made crazy claims of govt. sponsored pedophilia cults. NMN also for some very odd reason helped with the defense of a notorious predator named Phillip Arthur Thompson.

Looking into "election integrity" led me to Brad Friedman and Brett Kimberlin. From there it took me to Andy Stephenson and Jeff Wells. That's how I got interested in the hysteria surrounding satanism and MK Ultra exaggerations and other nonsense being pushed as fact.

the_last_name_left said...

I remember getting a little interested in the early Noughties by Barbara Hartwell...is that her name? Claims about being MKUltra victim and being involved in all these intelligence capers of interminably convoluted fashion. She's also wrapped in connections to Ted Gunderson and various other conspiracy/intel freaks?

I don't take any claims about any of it seriously - other than the absolute objective fact that it's all very messy, convoluted, complex and interminably dull.

One thing that gets me about the whole thing is the tacit idea of the human mind and psychology which it holds -- that people can be rigidly programmed for example - and turned into automata - blah blah blah.

The capabilities and susceptibilities of the human mind, are to some extent a known objective fact. No-one possesses telekinesis, for example. But for paranoid, gullible CTs the CIA doing "experiments" into ESP or mind reading are proof the things exist.

Anyone who thinks people can be "programmed" should try teaching a class of schoolkids, running an accounts office, running for elected office.....

CTs are such fantastists. They're not the only ones, but, man, what a joke.

I think the MKUltra meme is a great example of how rumour can mix with ignorance and a few little facts to produce remarkably beguiling crap.

What next? CIA verifies Mayan calendar prohecy - End of World announced in secret documents?

It all deserves to be buried under the South Pole where the NAzis are living in an abandoned alien city.

socrates said...

Hi TLNL, nice post as usual from yourself.

I too find it funny how what should be a good conspiracy read a la science fiction or whatnot versus truth nuggets can be presented so boringly and devoid of critical thought.

I think Hartwell was tied in with some loser named Tom Flocco along with the aforementioned Gunderson and other crazies. There are actually quite a number of strange names and websites that can be directly tied to one another.

There's no way in hell any of these MK Ultra claims we scoff at truly happened. I wouldn't mind reading a real account. It'd probably be about an entry level soldier or other people drawn into various Dr. Evil studies, similar to the process done with some quack medical trials. The participants would sign a release and confidential form. They would be given LSD and whatnot and then brain focked.

We know there was an MK Ultra. It's a shame so much evidence was destroyed. I agree reading the nutjobs is fun at first but quickly gets very stale.

Man, you have a way of articulating ideas I agree with, that I infortunately have difficulty putting into words. Like how you say the military looking into esp and paranormal doesn't prove squat. That's a solid point.

I think Rick Ross did a good job with his endeavours into documenting mind control by looking into cults through reliable resources. Too bad good info on mk ultra has fallen into a black hole.

The conspiracy theorists are fantasists, and they deserve ridicule and being ostracised. But as someone who believes there is covert weather modification, I do think social reality pertainting to such topics needs to be distinguished from obvious disinfo. This is why I have been tough on closed-minded debunkers in addition to crazy believers. Any type of dogamtic search for the truth is going to get us nowhere.

Separating fact from fiction may be near impossible at this point, at least in a big zeitgeist way. Thus, I drone on about pockets of awareness. Though for a small group of bloggers, I think the three of us and anyone else sane who'd like to join in could tackle anything.


Unfortunately, it takes a lot of luck and patience to hit a groove, to find such topics that we each are intrigued by and hungry for answers. We hit it off with Rivero. I hit it off with Bob, Doug, BoyInTheMachine, and others on the satanic panic. You have hit it off with some people like Ernie and that other dude about the anti-semitism in the Patriot Network (E.G. Carto, Rivero, et al).


One other thing that we have bonded with, and there are many more than just us three, is how the big forums are a major bust. Seriously, is there even one forum where good subjects, research, and dialogue ensue? I'm not seeing it.

I used to like HuffingtonPost before it was big, before we had to register. But now it's too big, there's censorship at times, and one would need a supercomputer for it to download at a reasonable speed.

I seriously want to know if there is even one blog which comes close to balancing volume, interesting topics, and freedom of thought and association. I love writing. I love blogging. I don't want to give up.

Both of you guys have saved me. I am grateful to have been able to have some good conversations and click with a decent chunk of things. That's what the blogosphere should be about, not this non-stop gibberish. Barbara Hartwell. Wow. Fricken sassafrassa.

socrates said...

Anyone else experiencing glitches with blogger? I'm getting error messages when I hit publish your comment, but they're still getting though.

socrates said...

TLNL, I think it'd be nice if you blogged here once in a while. All I'd need is your email address for your username to give you the invite. You could share it at Aircraft Wings. I promise to never delete anything.

bob said...

New blatant falsehood from Nick Bryant. On franklinfiles forum, Nick Bryant wrote:

"In "Sympathy for the Devil: Ritual Abuse, "False Memories," and the CIA," I quoted from a MK-Ultra Subproject 136 document, and I've attached a PDF of the document--redaction and all.
The Subproject 136 documentation discusses administering electric shock, drugs, hypnosis, and "psychological tricks" to three groups--psychotics, children, and mediums--to induce various states of dissociation, including multiple personality, which the researchers thought would enhance the subjects' extrasensory perception.
The Subproject 136 document demonstrates that the CIA was willing to carry out truly cruel and sadistic mind control experiments on children."

But that's NOT what the document says, at all! I'd like to believe this was just sloppy research on his part, but I suspect his misinterpretation is deliberate.

This document actually says:
"The experimenters will be particularly interested in dissociative states, from the abaisment de neveau mental to multiple personality in so-called mediums, and attempts will be made to induce a number of states of this kind using hypnosis".

Earlier in the document, it is stated that dissociative states can be created and controlled to some extent by the use of drugs or hypnosis, but the statement above is quite explicit - "attempts will be made to induce a number of states of this kind using HYPNOSIS".

There is a reference to electric shock, but that is made in relation to "learning studies...in which the subject will be rewarded or punished for his overall performance..." - the reference to electric shock was NOT in relation to "inducing dissociative states" or "creating multiple personalities". Obviously, Bryant is ignorant of the use of mild electric shock as a learning and reinforcement tool by psychologists in the 1950's & 1960's - this was a simple device attached to the thumb which delivered a mild electric 'sting'.

There is a reference to giving test subjects drugs, but again this is NOT in relation to inducing dissociative states. Again, this is in relation to the proposed learning studies wherein "the main consideration will be the attitude and disposition of the subject. Wherever possible, every attempt will be made to tailor the tasks required to his preference and his estimate of good working conditions", but a recalcitrant subject might be subjected to being drugged or "tricked" to change his "attitude".

The reference to "children, psychotics and mediums" occurs simply in a list of sources for data collection - it has NOTHING to do with the "individual subjects" enlisted for the learning studies or for induction of dissociative states.

Nick Bryant is a propagandist for the ritual abuse/mind control victim's therapist community, but not a very good one

socrates said...

Hi Bob, nice to see you posting again.

For those who don't know, Canadian Bob was Vindalf at the Amazon board, and he did a splendid job of putting Nick Bryant in his place.

His reward was getting trolled on. That was something I can easily relate to. The exact thing has happened to myself on numerous occasions.

When gadflies make too much sense with facts and content provided, the exposed have no other option than to attack the messenger.

One problem I've run into is such attacks have led me to make some bad decisions. Back in the day, I got paranoid of TLNL. Thankfully, we were able to work things out and see that we had more in common than not, that neither one of us was a troll.

My best move was getting over anonymous usernames and focusing in on real names. That's when the cybersmear script against me went into full operation. Some jackass out of Parsonsfield, Maine didn't like it that internet charlatan Will Thomas was exposed. It's one thing to make a fool out of a fake name like Lou Aubuchont. It's quite another to go after real ones.


Sorry to have gone off-topic. I just feel I can relate to the attacks on yourself. The problem is there are so few messengers outing the zeitgeist for the fraud it is. Just look at myself and TLNL in regards to how we combined forces to explain Rivero and all the other cretins associated with him. Since it was pretty much just ourselves doing that, the evil counter-strategy was to pin us as being the same person.

It feels like that storm has been weathered. It backfired. The credibility of Bradblog, Rigorous Intuition, Rivero, and of others like Larisa Alexandrovna did not survive. I, on the other hand, am still standing as an unpaid blogger worthy of respect.

Your critique of Nick Bryant is so well-grounded, that this gives you the right to blog on many other things and merit an audience. Lately, I have gone on a good run discussing Hollywood. I risk sounding pompous, but in my heart, based on what I've accomplished as a blogger, I feel I have created a niche for myself. I feel there is an audience out there reading my stuff and seeing that I made a contribution and didn't just waste my time over these last years. I love writing. I love what the internet in theory could be. I am not a quitter. I will become less prolific, but I doubt I'll ever quit blogging. It's too much fun and is gratifying. I only wish more people would join in, not trolls, but like-minded good people with something to say.


I am humbled by your decision to blog here. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

I am a survivor and no price can be put on destroying a child's life a two years old.anybody who is in denial about all of us we should be asking what was wrong with our parents generation. A bunch of power hungry people who will stop at nothing.I am in hell living but I know when I die I will not be seeing mr devil put the devil is waiting for my parents

socrates said...

You're not a survivor of any govt. sponsored sex cult. You've either been brainwashed by someone or are pranking.

You say this happened when you were two. When did you become aware of this alleged activity? Who was your therapist that "helped" you to regain your lost memories?


You're the one in denial.

You have nothing to offer. No names. No proof. No chronology. You've got nothing but the warped cult you've joined. You need to find a real psychologist not the quack who has ruined your life, that is if you truly believe the junk you just posted.

No one's in denial here about the extent and tragedy of child abuse. It's the cuckoo banana rubbish being posted by people like you that nearly everyone is fed up with.

You haven't even come up with any names or backstory. If you are really one of these so-called survivors, your story can be explained. It just won't be in a way you want to hear it right now. There have been a few quacks who started this whole thing. Link your story to some factual basis or go cry a river to Neil Brick.

Freedom Is Sacred said...

I have had Close Encounters of the Ugly Kind with some SRA/MKultra types. Enough to make me think about conspiracy-denial as a possible conspiracy. Clearly, these people are nutters, but just as clearly, they are not acting in a vacuum. Someone makes their nuttery profitable, and too many of them seem immune to the social controls on nuttery that we expect to see hitting them.

"Conspiracy" is a perfectly useful word to describe, simply, the deliberately combined actions of a few people with the intent of harming someone, or some others, or getting some illicit profit.
This "conspiracy culture" that you all are treating with well-deserved disdain should not blind anyone to the actual existence of conspiracies on a smaller scale.

The conspiracy-culture serves to entertain people who once would have gone to Roman circusses and it also distracts inquisitive minds from genuine problems. Didn't Nero see the value of more circusses to distract the Romans from their real problems? If you want to discredit someone who might stop you from taking advantage of others, isn't there some value to having a coterie of professional victim/trolls to sic on anyone who might "out" the truth? A coterie feeding off the cospiracy-culture so that you can activate a whole series of events with one move, kind of like activating a complicated java-script with one click?

There is a story by Doug Mesner about a quack shrink named Colin Ross who appears to have single-handedly created a scenario to match the MKultra story, but to what end? To serve his own narcissistic power trip and support his own very successful career? Did it require a CIA to enable him, or only a few strokes of luck here and there to disable the controls that would have stopped him? Then there was Dale Griffis, the notorious charlatan who rode the Satanic Panic into town after town, frequently having the effect of discrediting possible witnesses to actual crimes & laying the groundwork for eventual overturns of successful convictions in some cases. Not a big giant tinfoil conspiracy, but a shopping-mall filled with many small conspiracies that fit the needs of resourceful social entrepreneurs and criminals, a kind of invisible hand in the culture's own free market.

socrates said...

Thanks for the post.

I just watched this movie The Harder They Fall. Substitute boxers for the duped sra/mkultra believers, and it's the same schtick. Fighters were basically used. They ended up punch drunk while the real players took most of the gate. I think one famous line is something like boxers are today, promoters are forever, or something like that.

I think Doug is sincere.

I had never heard of Dale Griffis, but a quick look at the googler tells me he is a good example of what you're on about, though he doesn't appear to be a so-called debunker.

So he must be making some kind of money off of promoting the satanic panic, akin to folks who testified against the McMartins.

I found the Susan Polk case fascinating. Her husband was tied into guys like Colin Ross and probably more like that dude Cory Hammond. I personally just want the truth, not closed-minded debunking or crazy believing. Unfortunately for the satanic ritual abuse side, they are clearly way out there with the moon is made out of cheese type thinking. I'm not averse to conspiracy theory. But we need some good evidence. There is plenty of it for the JFK Assassination. For the MK-ultra, sra people, they lack proof. Yes, MK-Ultra was real, but what we see concerning it on the internet is mostly pure junk. There are many crazies out there being used. There are greedy crazies and perhaps non-crazy greedy people who are making a buck off of a hoax.

I see your from Massachusetts. We had the Fells Acre thingie. There's not much worse than innocent people going to prison.

Freedom Is Sacred said...

Yes, Socrates, I am a refugee. I'm glad I found your blog and the related off-shoots after first contact with Doug. Don't underestimate him. He and I have had a couple of exchanges about the whole Neil Brick thing, and that is certainly an expanding universe.

Do you know about the lawsuit? Several of his commenters, myself included, have suggested that if Brick is seriously carrying this forward, it belongs in front of Judge Judy.

socrates said...

Neil Brick has turned himself into a public figure. That might sound ludicrous on the surface, but he seems to be the head cheese of the mind control herd on the internet.

He is thus open to public criticism that regular people (non-public figures) are exempt. I'm not a lawyer, but in my day I watched not only Judge Judy but Judge Brown, Lane, and others I forget their names. Law is common sense.

Neil Brick needs help. I've seen him on one of his videos. He appears to be a victim. A guy like Colin Ross appears to be coldly calculating how to make money.

Neil Brick, from what I've seen, claims to have been some form of manchurian candidate. It may be entertaining to read, and of course we know none of it is true. However, this is the guy who's involved in putting together "mind control" conferences and has that big website. It's tough not to feel sorry for him or anyone else who sincerely believes in this junk.

I don't even think it's all that interesting. This is the kind of stuff you see in those tabloids offered at supermarket checkouts. The big difference is the publishers of those aren't even trying to sound like anything but fiction, like reading The Onion on lsd. These mind control people, they actually believe in this. That'why I think the true perpetrators have been two-fold. There are those few shrinks like Hammond, Alex Polk,this guy Ross. Then you have strange government-military associated people like Ted Gunderson and Michael Aquino hamming it up. Of course, I agree with you there is a third element of those trying to make a buck. That in itself isn't a bad thing, say like someone is researching stuff to write a book or whatnot. I suppose those need to be looked at on a case by case basis.

socrates said...

Wow, thanks for making a stop here. I've finally loaded up your blog. It looks very good. It will take time to check it out. I am initially turnef on by your banner reading of "A blog by Denise Matteau defending our rights of free speech, freedom of religion, and our right to live free of vigilante harassment and intimidation."

I can relate to that personally, but it's a long story and not one I've ever tried to push on folks to look into unless interested. By the wau, I apologise for any typos, spelling errors, etc. in my earlier post above. Maybe when I get the chance, I can write something up on your website. It's a shame how new comments in the blogger archives aren't probably read by too many. I'm notified of these of course, but perhaps we can figure out ways of using the blogger software to our advantage. So again, feel free to post on newer threads if you like when posting here. We and many others appear to be kindred spirits. It'd be a shame if we're unable to all get together on the same page, because we're ending up having discussions somewhat hidden due to being in parts of blogs collecting dust.

socrates said...

Whoa. Not to you, as in calling you a horse. I just took a quick run through your blog. There is too much there for me to make sense of it in short order.

I have praised the Rick Ross website before. But if members have been cyberstalking and harassing folks for sport, or because it fits some kind of agenda, I'm not cool with that.

I am of the belief that everything can ultimately come out of the wash. So my advise to you is to relax, take a deep breath, and try to formulate a coherent narrative for interested newbies. I'm not saying you are incoherent. The problem for folks like ourselves is we are in the thivk of things and have exponentially more knowledge on topics than most others.

In short, we are up against the hurdle of information overload.

For example, the new entry here was on the JFK Assassination. It will probably not go very far due to information overload. This guy donkeytale has already brought in the mafia as the chief suspect. I'm interested in Oswald, the CIA, and FBI angle. We will probably end up speaking over one another. That's unfortunately the nature of this blogging game.

I am kind of burnt out from blogging, but maybe I can look into one or two topics you've looked into as a courtesy to how you've checked out my schtick. Then we can find a way out of the archives back to the front page.

Everyone deserves their "day in court," whether it's yourself or Rick Ross and his bloggers.

The ultimate shame is that real dialogue is difficult to get churning, because too often the noise to signal ratio is cranked up. But with some effort, I do believe that can be overcome. By the way, I looked at a few of your videos. It's cute how you let your bir out of the cage. Does the thing ever perch itself on your shoulder? We all know how cats and dogs interact with humans. I'm curious about the dynamic between birds as pets with their owners. Take care.

Anonymous said...

Project Monarch is a hoax. I'm a victim of some kind of unethical, vile involuntary experimentation. Part of what these jerks seemed to want is for me to believe in certain conspiracy theories. I don't think it's a coincidence that the paperwork on MK Ultra seems distant from the claims of victims. They might be victims all right - victims of an experiment on suggestibility.


From what I've read about MK Ultra, much of it focused on the brain - brain to behavior, behavior modification, effect of certain drugs on the brain. For me, the Manchurian Candidate is the cover story and the real story is that they were looking at brain chemistry, chemical imbalances, suggestibility. After all, God forbid that their unethical deeds be *properly* exposed and that we know what individuals and institutions were involved in the most vile experiments since Mengele.

Whatever "protocol" I'm on involves the following: trauma, anxiety, seizure like symptoms produced by something external, witnessing of fake crimes, real crimes with decoying and perhaps an interest on dopamine/dopamine receptors.

I fell for the "organized stalking" hoax (it is "orchestrated stalking" by a few disgusting researchers not organized stalking by a community of "perpetrators" and "electronic harassment" - what the victims (and the fake jerks who are part of the program) claim is mostly *seizure symptoms*. It is my belief they are externally caused - I am not epileptic nor do I have a history of epilepsy.

I think what the squirrels (unethical researchers) shoot for is electrical imbalances of the brain. These can lead to psychosis. The combination of psychosis plus vile experimenters lying to victims and already frauded victims = delusional thinking or false beliefs about who is behind this, what their goals are, how they are doing this, etc.

There is another aspect that has to do with behavioral scripts. Look at the sites, the youtubes. Everyone is Jesus, it's the end-of-times. Everyone is a patriot and it's the NWO takeover (I don't believe that an NWO exists, but there is one vile OWO out there). It's the same thing all over again. Victims are plied with the notion that they are "whistleblowers" and "activists" when the truth is that they were likely chosen for a vulnerability and exploited.

Well, I'll keep my religious beliefs to myself and I'll never be a "patriot" in a country that would allow this to be done to innocent people.

Victims have my full sympathy. Fake victims - whether intentional or not can rot in Hades. Teasing apart who is a delusional real victim, who is a fake misleading victims and who is a troll is an impossible task.

I have interferences in communications when I try to contact those people who could help sort this out. That tells you how desperate the "researchers" are to maintain their cover as non-sociopathic members of society. I hope they are outed properly and that the public outcry will deter any researcher from ever believing that their "need to know" trumps the human rights of others.

My "program" started around 1968-6, so obviously it's not MK Ultra. It has had every kind of decoying and deception to have me believe it is one thing or another. I even had a 'death car' (car with many bizarre mechanical problems) called Monarch and two ppl later accused of being Soviet spies left a tarot card at the house in a Manchurian Candidate BS cover story. Worse, I saw a UFO in the 70s lol.

Too many cover stories means that the liability of these monsters is great. Why would ruthless, unethical and cowardly researchers tell you the name of their project? Hoax.

Check the loopholes in Federal laws - they are full of cheese.

socrates said...

That's an entertaining read, Anonymous. But without more details, there's no way to know what the heck you are talking about.

Your schtick sounds as unbelievable as Project Monarch.

Anonymous said...

This is a lie. Project Monarch is real, I have been a victim my whole life and everyone knows it. My name is Anne Johnson.

socrates said...

Got any proof?

One More Voice of Reason said...

Anne Johnson-Davis is an 'alleged' survivor who has written a book on her experiences with SRA within her MORMON family! LOL Seems to have no real link with the MKUltra/Butterfly-nuts except the one she's made in her mind so she can attack you for outing fakers, maybe that's why she didn't put her full name. As for proof...well, she's made claims of holding evidence but I haven't bothered to check into it that far, her modus operandi is too similar to fritz, cisco and all the others to bother. Check out the wiki page on her here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Johnson_Davis

socrates said...

Thanks for the comment. The satanic panic stuff is fascinating, though I haven't really been following it much anymore except for perhaps its connection to Amanda Knox.

Maybe that was the real Anne Davis, but let the record show there's no available proof whatsoever of a connection to the Ann B. Davis who played Alice on the Brady Bunch. [0>)

Kristy said...

Hi, I just wanted to thank you for posting something that actually makes some sense. I'd never heard of Project Monarch before tonight. I was directed to information about it quite by happenstance because the military installation I grew up on was mentioned in some documentation as a place that the Project took place at. (Wow, that sentence seems awkward!) Because I was diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder as a teenager (well, it was MPD at the time), the info about this project fascinated me. Because I grew up at this certain military base, I was even more intrigued.

Forgive me if I don't give personal details. I'm not trying to prove anything in this comment, and this is a public forum, so I don't know, I feel weird about just spouting off a lot of personal stuff about where I grew up and my name and such.

Anyway, what caught my eye in all the muck... and it certainly seemed like a lot of muck: Satanic rituals, programming people like supercomputers, Illuminati, conspiracy theories?? I don't usually subscribe to such stuff!... were things like, I am the only child I know who was given the entire Wizard of Oz series to read growing up; I identify with butterflies and the whole caterpillar/metamorphosis thing, and always have; I can easily slip myself into a state where I don't feel pain at all; I have rather irrational fears of electricity and water; and I am extremely open to manipulation. Even knowing this last one, it's hard to control about myself. I physically cannot get the word "no" out when someone is assaulting me, and what's worse, it's like I develop Stockholm Syndrome about the person almost immediately. Intellectually, I can see these things about myself, emotionally, it's hard to do anything to stop them.

Okay, now before you rip me apart as weird and deluded, let me explain. I have memories of my father doing some pretty bad sexual and emotionally manipulative stuff to me from an early age. (Well, as early as you could be expected to rationally remember.) As the first male to bond with me, his young daughter, his abuse could easily have shaped me into who I am now. (Can you see the years of therapy bleeding through? haha) So I have an explanation for who and what I am, MPD and all, and it's the one I've lived and worked with all my life.

Then tonight, I read the Project Monarch stuff, and my heart did a few backflips. I mean, there was SO MUCH I could identify with, not just emotionally, but weird stuff like the Oz series, and more, but I can't remember it all. (Been up all night reading; kinda tired!) Plus it may have been in my hometown??

But they do that, right? The conspiracy trolls? Take stuff that was probably more popular at that time and weave it around to make you confused and start wondering, doubting. Using your problems against you.

Anyhow, the reason I'm writing here at all is to tell you thanks. I kept on searching because I wanted a less-biased sounding source of information about all this Monarch stuff; someone who would "zap" me out of my freak-out (haha, a little "victim" humor there) and actually talk some sense. You and your commenters presented some interesting information that wasn't full of theories and scare-tactics and weirdness.

I feel better. I'm pretty sure I'm not a government experiment, just your normal, messed up adult who probably needs more therapy. ;)

socrates said...

Hi Kristy,

Yeah keep going to counseling. Find a nice lady and chill out, tell her everything.

I got in a bit of college. I'm fairly sure there was no MK-ULTRA tie in with satanic cults.

Locate credible sources like real newspapers, then you will see what the satanic panic truly was. Some blog entries here might help you further out of that rabbit hole urban legend.

DarkStar said...

Hi, hoping Bob reads this and some of the other original commenters may be around.

I have been researching this stuff in a serious way because I was a Black Magician's woman companion for 6 years and some things really did happen that certainly stretched belief. I now have more or less pieced all the bits together - everything WAS obvious at the time, but it just seems too strange to be real. Basically I am talking about ritual sexual practices that could be interpreted as training an ideal sacred whore.

It appears that here and there in all the crazy stuff people have written online there is a TINY grain of truth. It is as though people have overheard this or that, and then FANTASISED about what it would really be like or what it really means. This seems endemic when it comes to Satanic/Luciferian practices - people who don't really know the larger context get quite carried away imagining that they eat babies or something.

There really is a very old tradition of sacred whores and what is called "magic", but I am completely wary now of explaining or giving any details online in such a public way. Why? No I'm not worried about the Men In Black coming to get me. I am worried about more vulnerable people who have NOT really had such experiences reading stuff and getting confused and panicky, and about charlatans using more details that SOUND REAL to pad out their ridiculous attention whoring.

The people who write the conspiracy stuff online and popularise MPD would have vulnerable people believe all sorts of everyday normal stuff is either mind control or evidence of the same. Their accounts of the effects of torture and the methods used to create "sex slaves" are not actually true - I have unfortunately ALSO been severely tortured by a former partner who was treating me like a slave - not part of any cult, just a psychopath. Anyone who has really been severely abused will be able to spot the fact that their "accounts" have no qualitative detail or coherent narrative, and touted "explanations" do nothing of the sort. The real effects and methods are different to described, and frankly a lot less sensational.

That is not to say that the real methods used don't work very effectively. The really worrying thing is that there WILL be more people around like me with stories that are just plain weird who actually have nowhere to tell our stories, and have trouble finding real and relevant stuff to help us understand. It really adds immensely to the suffering having to put up with all of these ridiculous personality-disordered people claiming all this hogwash as fact.

If anything genuinely abusive has happened to you, you WILL remember it. You may forget for a while if you don't speak to anyone about it, but the whole "multiple personalities" thing is made up. Of course both torture and trance states, as well as drugs, produce altered states of consciousness and the ability of the brain to learn and be trained is astounding. But you will never have been in any real doubt about what happened to you. You will actually probably have spent a lot of time consistently trying to understand WHY what happened happened. And possibly not discussing things often or at all, as you feel some things are "beyond the pale".

I was just very glad to find such a decent and sane article on the subject for once. I agreed with just about every word. I really would rather have emailed the poster personally to tell him my REAL story in detail as he sounds intelligent and interested in reality. I don't want to add to the confusion and fear of vulnerable people, who may WELL have a REAL history of some kind of abuse and don't need their heads filled up with nightmares from elsewhere.

Severin!! said...

Referencing the idea of a "comprehensive" or "exhaustive" search into the issue of Project Monarch; (and the conclusion that it never existed).
First it needs to be understood that even with the documented mind-control programs, (MK-ULTRA, ARTICHOKE, etc.), the extant research material from the CIA consisted of only two boxes of documents. During the course of the Church committee evaluation, it came to light that this was only a fragment of the documentation on these programs; CIA is said to have destroyed all the remainder. In addition, some persons who have reviewed the extant documents have commented that they believed that these documents were heavily redacted, and/or edited.
So, we have a large amount of activities on the part of the CIA that there is simply no documentation for. Therefore, it is not possible to say, definitively, that they did not operate a program called Monarch, or that, they did not have other projects/sub-projects that addressed themselves to the topics that some claim were the core of Monarch activities.
I agree that there are, in all likelihood, a number of persons claiming interaction with such a program that are lying. But, it does not follow from this that all the cases are without substance.
The problem here is simple; we are talking about "black ops", i.e. activities for which there are no reliable records; (at least none that will ever see the light of public scrutiny). It is clear, from the extant documents on MK-ULTRA, etc. that the CIA was more than willing to engage in morally reprehensible practices to perfect their technology of mind manipulation. I do not feel it to be too much of a stretch to say that they could have been looking into the uses of sex, and other primal impulses, to develop this technology.
I guess I am just saying that there is no way there can be an accurate judgment of whether or not such a program as Monarch existed, because we simply do not have enough evidence. But, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

socrates said...

"But, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

It's probably the same people saying MKUltra was a widespread government sex ring who deny the Holocaust happened.

Absence of proof means exactly what it says. You've got nothing.

Severin!! said...

"It's probably the same people saying MKUltra was a widespread government sex ring who deny the Holocaust happened.

Absence of proof means exactly what it says. You've got nothing."

From speculating on the possible existence on a covert program, (one that would operate along the parameters already proven to guide MK-ULTRA), to Holocaust denial? That is quite a leap of assumption; (and one that might make one question who you are defending and why...)
At any rate the analogy is clumsy and inept.
I would like to point out two things: First there were rumors about MK-ULTRA style programs before the documents were uncovered that proved it. Second, what we know about the reality of MK-ULTRA's praxis, (the uses of trauma to program behavior in human beings), is perfectly in line with what is speculated about Monarch. I am not saying this is definitve proof; merely pointing out that to theorize about it does not constitute a leap into unreality.

socrates said...

Look buddy, there was a lot of crazy stuff going on in the 20th Century, enough so we don't have to turn such horrors into inept, not even entertaining conspiracy theories.

You satanic panic people have been drying out in the toaster long past your freshness date.

emcolo said...

There is PLENTY of evidence and victims of Project Monarch/MK Ultra. Anyone who denies this is very ignorant.

emcolo said...

There is plenty of evidence concerning mind control and plenty of victims. The reason they try to put this under the rug and make it disappear is because so many have come out about it, and they do not want to be implemented and lose their control and power. The evidence is overwhelming and I have met many peple who are good and smart people, but whom have been hurt by these very sick and evil people. Trust me, the symbolism and victimization goes way beyond anything you would ever imagine.

socrates said...

How is one supposed to respond to such obviously insane posts?

Anonymous said...

I would hate to go against you in a debate socrates, you're just so darn rational, intellectual, articulate and perfectly efficient in your responses.

In saying that, you're lying. Astroturfing at perhaps its most refined form. McCarthyism well adapted.

I think Foucault would have admired you (or conglomerate that is you?).

-anonymity

michelle bilodeau said...

I could be confused as to exactly what "Bob" YOU ARE TRYING EVER SO INCORRECT ON MANY LEVELS to pretend to knoW about this programming , experiments, etc. First off Bob let get "REAL here You your self have not gone thru any experiments. Or correct me if Im wrong, As for me (and ironically happened by this today I have been thru these treatments, experiments, druggings, training exercises. I don't really want to give too much insight to you because its not really anyones business except for those who either under went these situations or you were involved in the actual administration of medications , training, or in some capacity. I am pictured on this page....I only just found out this month November 2014. I don't or should I say haven't commented on any site yet, and this will probably be the last. I'm pissed off that you Bob make claims, statements what ever you want to call it and in my opinion sound like a misinformed, & (excuse me for my expressing of my feelings so to the point) stupid person who doesn't even know what he's commenting on because as I said, YOU haven't been there and YOU don't know what you are commenting about cause YOU weren't there. Kindly, be respectful to those to did have these events happen to them and have half a ounce of thought how YOU would feel if it was you...Nevermind, how it would feel if it was you and then you had to read some words written by you.

socrates said...

Bob's not here anymore.

"I am pictured on this page."

I don't think so.

Feel free to go to a garbage website called Rigorous Intuition. They'll care. I personally have moved well beyond caring about the internet manifestation of satanic panic or any other conspiracy theories taken at face value with no proof.