This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Wednesday, August 4, 2010

FBI Creates Limited Hangout To Overshadow Upcoming Third Hal Turner Trial

Third trial for hate-speech blogger Hal Turner is set for August, Internet report says

Hal Turner was a paid FBI informant. He posed as a white supremacist in order to draw out the crazies. His third trial is set to begin in less than a week. This is why the FBI has decided to embarrass itself by threatening legal action against Wikipedia for hosting a high resolution image of its seal.

If you go to the Wikipedia entry, you can click on the above, and a new page will open with a big clear image. It's called an svg format. I'm too much of a wimp to post it here, although I believe this FBI move is a total bluff.

Here's a comment from the peanut gallery to a Vanity Fair article that came out yesterday. Expect to see this type of generic comment wherever this story is published. That's called astroturf. The person posting is probably an FBI agent.
At first glance it looks like the FBI fell off its rocker, but there's a point to their complaints that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Wikipedia allows you to download a full resolution SVG-format version of almost any logo that appears on their site, and the FBI logo is no exception. SVG is as high-resolution as you can get and can be printed at any possible size with no pixelation. No other online encyclopedia or news media I know of allows for the download of infinite-resolution originals, and it's disingenuous for Wikipedia to compare themselves to Encyclopedia Britannica in this fashion. The FBI must be concerned about people downloading the SVG file and printing up impostor ID cards or badges with it. Now, this isn't to say that the way Wikipedia does things is wrong. They're a community-run encyclopedia, and giving potential editors access to original files, in a flexible, open-source format like SVG, is the right thing to do. But I don't know if it's inline with the law in this case; placing the logo in an article is clearly fair use while allowing access to the original SVG file is a tougher call.
The problem with this explanation is according to, this same image has been on Wikipedia since at least February 16th, 2008.

On the blog BoingBoing, Rob Beschizza writes that this is a no-win situation for the FBI.

"The part that's hard to understand is why the FBI would seek to abuse the law in such petulant fashion," he writes, "knowing that it will be subject to public ridicule for its actions."
The answer is the FBI is trying to clog up the search engines with insignificant fluff while simultaneously tossing their close association with Hal Turner down a memory hole.

People are very naive if they think Turner has been the only dumbass on the internet working for the FBI and other so-called anti-terror groups. I think Mike Rivero of works for one of those. He used to have a McDonnell Douglas email address. He claims to be an anti-New World Order truthseeker. Yet he used to work for the largest military contractor in the world. Does that add up? His buddy Tinoire the communist claimed years ago that she used to spy on the Ruskies for military intelligence. She admitted that once years ago while trying to enamour herself with Ronald Reagan admirers. Michael Rivero has been at the forefront of the Joos Own the World conspiracy theory. Hal Turner wasn't a big fan of the Joooos either. Hmmm.

Internet cointelpro, at least with the emergence of Sean Hannity's buddy Hal Turner, has been established as fact. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. This is why I believe the FBI has timed this recent stink up over the image of their seal being on Wikipedia to coincide with the continuing saga of Hal Turner's legal battles. This is what is referred to as a limited hangout. If the FBI was really this upset over the seal being shown in vivid colours, why did they wait around two and a half years to whine about it?


socrates said...

I deleted a comment from the house troll, the one who likes to wank off on Theresa Duncan's memory. At least that's who I think made the post. It said to the effect that this entry resembles something that a strange internet person named Hugh Manatee Wins would write.

I guess so. I admit this essay was conjecture. I believe it. Why did the FBI wait two years to complain about the Wikipedia entry? Is it a coincidence that this story has come out within a week of Hal Turner's 3rd trial?

That troll is like a mosquito. It has no life. It's insane. It actually thinks people care what it thinks. It can't establish its own blog, so it has tried to leech off of this humble one. It's not going to happen.

the_last_name_left said...

Hugh Manatee wins? From.....what's it called? That conspiracy place?

Have to say, I don't know how you hit on the idea for this post. I don't follow your reasoning. Maybe you're right, but....seems odd. Couldn't they come up with something a little more exciting? Image-rights are hardly going to catch the public's imagination, are they? And they surely have a point, in so far as the files wikipedia gives away are vector files, of top quality - exactly what a counterfeiter wants.

Maybe I#ll put this one down to you suffering from warming, huh? ;)

socrates said...

I only know of a HMW from Rigorous Intuition. He goes overboard with making connections that aren't there. You have to read some of them to know what I mean.

You're wrong about this story not catching the public's imagination. It's been covered by many mainstream outlets. The Hal Turner story has been pretty much covered up.

So let's go with the idea that the FBI doesn't like the high quality image being made available. How come they waited two years to complain?

I find the timing very suspicious, while you seem to be chalking it up to coincidence.

I admitted this was conjecture in my previous post. I don't think there was anything too crazy about the entry, unless of course you can explain the two year wait for the FBI to start whining along with the timing of it with Hal Turner's trial.

Hal Turner worked for the FBI. I haven't seen you really cover him. Maybe I just missed it. He has been a much bigger name than Mike Rivero has ever been, and he is directly tied to Sean Hannity of Fox News.

He acted the crazy Jooooo hater for years in an attempt to draw out the crazies for the FBI. There is a dumbass anti-terrorism movement concerning the internet. Hal Turner may be a creep, indeed he is, but for you to gloss over his ties to the FBI is disappointing. Though I do acknowledge your praise of my find on Rivero's friend Tinoire claiming to have worked for military intelligence most gratifying. This also shows I don't censor people just because they disagree with me. I will censor anyone who tries to treat me like dirt on my own blog. You sir are a gentleman.

the_last_name_left said...

I don't know much about Hal Turner. I came across him through the usual anti-semitic, holocaust denial channels ie Rivero et al, i think. A long time back at Trausti's forum I challenged the meaning of that same document David Dees recently referred to here - which had been at Hal Turner's - the one claiming only 300,000 deaths at German camps. Someone had posted it, and I found the source to be Hal Turner's site.

I think that was when he first came to my notice. He had a load of crap about immigration too, IIRC.

I'm not especially surprised he was known to the Feds. Or that they used him. Hadn't hackers posted his emails to the FBI on his website, or something?

Other than that, I know nothing about him, really. A far-right dirtbag, I thought. I did read a little of his earlier trial - the next one might be more interesting? Will you cover it? ;)

Hugh manatee @ rig int? - that's the place. I forgot the name.

socrates said...

Blogger can get glitchy at times. I receive notification of every post that is added to DFQ2. Donkeytale left a post. Somehow it was delered. I didn't do it. My plan was to read it, let it remain, and ask him once more to go away.

It was mostly on baseball. It was rather boring. Then he snuck in his usual troll bits at the end. He never stops.

the Donkeytale troll: As for your stretcher herein, at least its a change of pace from your recent 1930's movie starlet fetish/obsession.

Ever thought of tackling a real woman, dude? Y'know, really? Or do you just plan to grow old and grey policing your web site in btwn old flicks?

He wrote many boring paragraphs on baseball only to bring out his claws at the end. I don't like this person. I've told him to go away. The last time he tried to get something published here, he said that I was menstruating. This guy writes things on forums that if he said them to people's faces in real life, he'd probably get the snot beaten out of him.

This is your internet tough guy like Larry. I'm not always buckets of sunshine myself, but these guys never let up. They always bring it on like they spent years in juvenile detention and counseling but never snapped out of it. Or something.

This specific troll then ended his post on-topic.

donkeytale troll: Like TLNL, I doubt the FBI is all that concerned about Hal Turner. They probably just don't want their logo to be readily available for any two bit grifter with a lap top and printer. Sometimes a banana is just a banana, dude.

Why would they worry about a public reaction over a nobody named Hal Turner when the public cant even begin to break a sweat over the Wikileaks and Top Secret America revelations of recent weeks?

I'm not going to waste any more time with donkeytale. He's a toxin. I'm going to respond to TLNL, who knows how to disagree without being a jerk. Perhaps donkeytale's comments condoning rape of children should get its own entry. This person is scum. Hey scumbag, GO AWAY. EAT SHIT AND DIE. You're not wanted here.

That FBI logo has been available for two years. I want to know why they waited two years to complain about the high quality image. I fricken know the main point is they're saying any criminal could print it out into a fake badge. I told of BradBlog's Brett Kimberlin having done shit like that. But no one ever looks into things like that, how he was suspected of being a pedophile, how he and Brad peddle hoaxes. No, this asshole troll shows up and writes tons of garbage about baseball. Then he finally gets to his main objective of trying to make me feel like shit for getting into movies. Then he finally gets on-topic, but at that point one can see he is merely a manipulative, creepy, sadist.

For anyone interested in seeing the proof that donkeytale is a NAMBLA apologist, the link is in an entry or two before this. He wrote it at My Left Wing. He's not promoting pedophilia. Donkeytale is basically giving the age of around 13 and older as old enough to be able to have sex with adults. He's saying if the kids are sexed up enough, age doesn't matter. He also thinks everyone is gay. He's also admitted to having been in prison. This guy is bad news. He like two other trolls for some reason won't go away from this blog. It's pitiful. It's about attempts at sadism right in clear view by anonymous creeps hiding behind computers. Larry's actually the only one who says who he is. The other two are the ultimate losers. Donkeytale will never give his real first and last name, because he knows he'll then be unable to keep shooting off his venom hiding behind his monitor without fearing someone tracking him down and smashing his head in. I wouldn't do it. I'm mostly peaceful. I've never gone to prison unlike this scumbag who promotes sex between minors and adults.

socrates said...

Hey TLNL. Yes, you have heard about Hal Turner. He was the link to that Red Cross thing giving the same kind of hoax numbers Dees was. He also hosted info on how to make bombs.

He's a total embarrassment to the FBI. He is a form of modern cointelpro. He was on the FBI payroll. His job was to flusj out crazies.

The point is this trial isn't even being covered. I'll try to find out about it. It actually got bumped up to today. I think the local New Jersey newspaper is the only source covering it well. There was something about Hal also being involved with the CIA, that he was acting like some bigwig American NeoNazi Party leader. I forget where he went. It might have been Argentina or Brazil.

Unlike what the troll says, Hal Turner is anybody but a nobody. He used to be a regular caller to Sean Hannity's radio show. I think he was a main link for Rense and Rivero until the bomb making link story came out.

I see the Republicans as splitting into three parties. You have your neonazis like Rivero and Dees. Then there are the ones who believe every word the military says and have bought into turning the Cold War into this new one between the West and Islam. There's a third one, and those are the people who probably ended up voting for Obama and changing to Independent.

But you're missing the point if you don't know that Hal Turner was working for the Feds, and that there is much more to this story than him receiving fifty bucks a crazy. I wrote about it months ago. There wasn't much info on it. Turner went to South America for some espionage deal. The ptb's in the FBI and CIA do not want the world to know about it.

HMW of RI is over the top, and he calls everything a CIA psyop. This story I've presented is fact. The only part I can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt is that the logo story is tied into Hal Turner. I do want to know why the FBI waited two years to bitch about it. The timing is very suspicious.

Then the next problem is that all the links showing up on Hal Turner will be to mostly crap website like Alex Jones, Rivero, scrubs like them. There is a cover up going on. Maybe I will look into this some more and see if I can try to make better sense of it. Turner's posing as a Neonazi leader for the CIA blows away the FBI story, imho. But unfortunately, there's not much available info. That local New Jersey paper has been the best source. They've been looking at court documents.

bob said...

Sorry I've been so quiet, lately.

I am creating a site that will be dedicated to exposing the new crop of RA-MC frauds, in great detail. One of my first projects will be, going through Colin Ross' alleged documentation of CIA created MPD - chapter by chapter - and demonstrating that the source documents don't say what he has claimed they say.

I will still make contributions here as well. In fact, I've got something HUGE for DFQ2, something that ties in nicely to your fake leftist theme.

the_last_name_left said...

I do want to know why the FBI waited two years to bitch about it. The timing is very suspicious.

Well, maybe. But whenever they did it, something would have been happening which they'd rather people didn't concern themselves too much about? It's not like the FBI only do dodgy things once in a while, is it? ;)

Still, the interesting thing is the story about Hal Turner, isn't it? It is to me, at least. [Maybe you're right about the logo, I don't know.]

Maybe the story should be of greater concern? It is cointelpro, isn't it? Though it isn't very surprising to find the FBI involving themselves with a very popular(?) figure of the far(?) right? Right? Why wouldn't they?

But there's implications for the left too?

It's surely going too far to write-off everyone as potentially part of cointelpro.....or is it? ;)

I think it's going too far - but...

I would imagine a lot of care will be taken to try to prevent release of too much info about how FBI whatever goes about that sort of business. Interesting though. Hopefully you are going to be digesting it for us? I think you just got yourself a job. ;)

socrates said...

Thanks for the comments Bob and TLNL. I'll take them in order.

Bob, don't worry about anything. I look forward to checking out your new blog when it's available. Make sure to let us know where it is.

Colin Ross is a perfect creep to go after. Make sure to check out Doug Mesner's piece on him from a while back. Speaking of Doug, I was lurking at RI the other day, something I've been doing less and less because it's so idiotic. That dame called Project Willow who I blogged on months back referred to him as a satanist.

The losers at RI were discussing the upcoming mind control conference. She didn't mention Doug by name. She alluded to his investigative report on one of the conferences.

That was another great read Doug produced. Anyway, the point I want to make is it's fairly ridiculous how the few of us get wailed on by trolls. The house troll here has been picking up the pace calling you some guy from Canada who it believes is some kind of satanist. I forget the name of the person it keeps calling you. I couldn't be bothered to look into it. I did what I did with my schtick on the satanic panic. It was a good run, but I admit there are others like yourself and Doug who are much more knowledgable in the subject. By the way, Doug isn't in The Process Church. I asked him about that once. He just liked the phrase for a website name.

I won't mention the link to where that strange person is posting about you. Suffice it to say, it has no proof that you are that person. Your confrontation with the "Franklin Case" hoax people basically hit a raw nerve. That's how I see it. It's just some lame blame the messenger and avoid the message kind of spewage game. It's not worth the time, and I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. Which leads me to TLNL's comment. He's spot on in saying the more important story is Hal Turner, about who he is and what he's been up to over the years, than the FBI's discomfort with Wikipedia. I'll get to that next.

socrates said...

The logo thing could be a stretch. I usually post first and regret later. I don't then delete what I posted. I totally agree with you that the Hal Turner story is the biggie.

I don't know how much info food there is out there to chew on. The trial seems to be all about his threats against the three judges. Search engines are all clogged up with bullshit links. I only see the one local New Jersey paper even covering the story. They don't even seem to be doing much.

The FBI is trying to make it seem Hal was a little used informant they dropped as soon as it became clear to them he was unhinged.

But then there is the matter of his being sent to Brazil by the FBI to pose as a prominent American neonazi leader. There seems to be next to nothing on that tidbit, and it's the most important one. I'm wondering where the FBI gets the jurisdiction to be messing around with other countries. I don't get how anyone could be stupid enough to believe Hal Turner was anything in that role other than a proverbial narc.

Here are the best links I can find. They are mixed in with links to Stormfront and other nonsense.

Records show feds used ultra-right radio host for years

As 2004 wore on, Turner found himself reporting to the FBI about a possible theft of evidence in a Bergen County drug case and about an attempt to set up a chapter of the Aryan Nations in northern New Jersey.

A year later, with the FBI paying for his visa and passport renewal, Turner embarked on his most ambitious mission — to confer with a wealthy white supremacist in Brazil who was considering making a $1 million donation to his American counterparts.

While in Brazil, Turner also reported meeting a World War II German Luftwaffe flying ace and linking up with a representative of the Brazilian Arab Society, who discussed a plan to ship $10 million in consumer goods to anti-American Iraqi resistance fighters.

After Turner returned to New Jersey, the records show that the FBI investigated the Arab Society representative and even reached out to U.S. officials in Brazil for help in monitoring his activities. But it's not clear if the $10 million shipment was attempted.

The $1 million donation also never materialized, records show. The Brazilian benefactor backed out of the deal when an American white supremacist did not accompany Turner on the trip.

Records indicate the FBI wanted Turner to return to Brazil to spy on white-supremacist training there. But Turner never went. While in Brazil, Turner said, he carried a gun for protection, which was not authorized by the FBI.

Only a few weeks after returning to the United States from Brazil, Turner again found controversy. In a radio broadcast, he targeted African-Americans....

This should be national news but isn't.

There's also the SPLC. But other than those two, the bulk of others covering this have been the far right including neonazi websites and places like Prison Planet.

So basically, unless someone truly looks into this story, they might think it is just more conspiracy theory chatter on par with moon landing hoax claims.

the_last_name_left said...

The Brazil thing reminds me of Willis Carto and AFP's cynical efforts to approach Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.

Wouldn't that have been a possibly fruitful connection for American secret state? Their own contacts in the far-right making friends with Chavism.....potentially very useful, I'm sure.

That they thought Chavez would go for it is laughable naivete. Clearly they don't have a clue about what Chavez is about. haha.

Still, I can see reasons why the far-right would want to make contact with Chavez - especially if it was to their financial benefit. F-ing losers. Still, the Hal Turner thing and Brazil makes me wonder anew.

It poses something of a quandary too - as a leftie I'm inclined to be more understanding and sympathetic towards secret state if it is working to undermine radical far-right movements than if it's stirring up shit in the left.

lenin had the cheka which morphed into the ogpu and the nkvd, eventually kgb. tricky issues here?

socrates said...

I had to googlify when I read you say Carto tried to hook up with Hugo Chavez. Ironically I had commented on this story when you first blogged on it a bit more than a year ago. That shows how bad my memory can be. p:~\

There's a big difference between the Carto thing and Turner being sent to Brazil by the FBI, that being the FBI's involvement.

I too feel the same as yourself about somehow not minding in fact liking authorities putting a stop to right wing terrorism rather than bugging Quakers and peaceful lefties.

I don't think we're going to learn much more about Hal Turner's connections to the spy factory. I think the spin will continue that he was a little used informant, and that by around 2005, the FBI had washed their hands of him once they realised he was insane. This Brazil story will only be known by a few, and what is known won't be much.

Off Topic- concerning the house troll: I take it you subscribe to new comments flowing in on threads you comment on. If so, then you must have seen various droppings left by the house troll. I guess in a way I am feeding it. What a fricken loser it is. That is someone the FBI and whatnot should keep an eye on. It's batshit insane. It claims Bob is some Canadian, Wiccan, policeman who covers up satanic rings. It was wondering whether DFQ2 had slowed down because I was the Craiglist loser who killed some bimbo then himself recently while in prison. Well, I'll continue to delete it on sight.

Sometimes censorship is necessary. This isn't about censoring facts that blog administrators find too revealing about themselves. This is about some certifiable nutjob freak who should be in an asylum. It has had zero worth as a blogger. It knows this. So it tries to leach off of bloggers who've actually come up with decent entries. It should really try to stop wanking off of Theresa Duncan's memory. Maybe someday it will stop being in denial and find a way to heal. Then perhaps it can transform itself from an it to a human being. I doubt it.