This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Friday, February 12, 2010

Tinoire of Progressive Independent Outed As Right Woos Left Disinfo Freak

I would like to share once again the story of how I was banned from Progressive Independent. Tinoire has shown up of late, and it appears she is going to pass on ownership of her blog to the others. But the damage is done. She admitted to being military intelligence. She has proven herself as being a rabid sponsor of Michael Rivero.

On this thread, I had shown up seeing that it dealt with my being treated lousy by Democratic Underground. This person called Kailassa kept bringing in the Joos. It had nothing to do with the thread. I called her out for spamming. I confronted her for being anti-semitic. I called out a poster named Virgil for using the term Jewboy in another thread.

Both her and Tinoire said I made that up. There's a reason the disinfo byaitchka named Tinoire has put a robots.txt on her dumbass website. It's so people can't search through the archives and more easily out that forum for being rigged. No true lefties would ever support Michael Rivero nor post anti-semitic thoughts.

A website named Prosemite Undercover watched my back. On this thread, people can see that I didn't lie about Virgil using the term Jewboy. Unless we're all in on this big conspiracy to discredit Progressive Independent. Yeah right, that's the ticket.

You need to scroll down page one of the prosemite undercover thread to see the copy and paste of what Virgil wrote. Thank you, Gi Joe, whoever you are.
Show me reality. Get as real as you can. Start a website and have the citizens gather to show their own big realities. Say socialism. Say depleted uranium. Say no more empire. Say getting the Jewboys out of American politics isn't antisemen- its pro-humanity and pro-American.

Tinoire has scrubbed her website early and often. She has done such a bad job of it, however, that somehow post numbers end out of sync. In that one, for example, responses to my post #80 had a lower order number. Tinoire deleted every single one of my posts. I'm kind of shocked she didn't just delete the whole thing.

From the Prosemite site, one can see that she wrote the following for post #87, which ironically now shows as one of my deleted posts:
It's damn bizarre that there's no such post on this forum. It's damn bizarre that there's no such post on this forum.

It's damn bizarre you "quoted" it but couldn't even provide a link, a thread title, a poster's name or anything.

It's damn bizarre that a search of posts using the forum's search capability and a MySQL search of our entire database revealed no such string as "play the jew card", much less the other rubbish you invented. The only result was in your post right here.

What's damn ugly is that the only result of a google search for this went straight to that right-wing pro-occupation forum that's so intent on quelling any support for justice in the Middle East.

What a crock of shit. This is such a despicable low.

When you can't find it, plant it huh? Had I researched that phrase before deactivating your account, my explanatory note would not have been as polite.

If you were truthful when you said you "do not like the Israeli govt. or what they are doing to the Palestinians" this is even more disturbing and I hope you examine yourself closely because the most charitable explanation is that you're very confused.

PU gave a link to that post. The link brings one to an edited post by Tinoire, now #77, used to be #87:

Edited by Tinoire on Sun Aug-26-07 01:32 PM

On edit. Damn I hate this

Let me translate that. She was saying she hates getting her smelly arse trollbusted!

As she wrote further down, I'm supposed to be part of some nasty cabal that goes around the net destroying all these forums doing such important activism.
It's much odder than that. I did some scrubbing yesterday. One of the ways I scrubbed changed the dates, mostly in the posts by "deactivated account". The OP got changed because I needed to remove the poster's moniker from the thread trail.

There's a pretty nasty game being played by people who go from forum to forum wreaking them to make sure all serious discussion gets discredited along with the rubbish they litter the forums with. We're just not going to play that game. When I have time, I'll fix that.

Problem is Tinoire can't "fix" being exposed as an internet disinfo writer. All she can do is come up with some fake script about being in South America or whatever in some mountains dealing with personal things, and that it's time for the "communists" to take over her forum. That the Joo haters and conspiracy theory freaks have been purged, and now the serious lefties can carry on the struggle. Laughing Out Loud!!!

The problem with that is her buddy Chlamor has also exposed himself as being a Michael Rivero sycophant.

Of course the scrubbing could get even more extreme. But it doesn't matter. Too much has been exposed, especially that tidbit about Tinoire having been military intelligence.

Chlamor linking to Rivero

I see he also linked to a website named Serendipity. That sounds like it could be another Joo hating domain, but I don't have the time to confirm that. The fact that Chlamor linked to Rivero says it all. Someone who is meant to be the hardcore communist should not be linking to an obvious rightwinger like Rivero. PERIOD.

Hmmm. I see TLNL showed up here to do some good work. This thread calling out Rivero has yet to be scrubbed.

I guess I should do some more overkill. On this thread Tinoire sent out kudos to Michael Rivero.
... the information propagated by my Mike Rivero at - Gotta plug Mike since the moderates are so bent on discrediting his site!

Or here:
Anyone interested in putting a face to Mike Rivero might appreciate this.

Oh yeah, he's banned on Dem cover-up sites where criticism of Israel is un-American and criticism of Democratic Party complicity in our fast slide into fascism is verboten. Imagine that. A man who's been sounding the alarm for years and fighting to get the truth out since the Clinton days when ole Billy Boy and his policy triangulations were eviscerating the media & liberal politics... And he's verboten

Or here:
I've mentioned my friend Desert Peace, aka Steve Amsel, before but not all of you know him. Steve and I met a few months ago after Daily Kos chased him (an Israeli lol) and international activist/artist Ben Heine off the site after a coordinated attack that involved several sites we know and the right wing newspaper Arutz Sheva.

Since then, both Steve and Ben have become good friends and close associates.

Saturday, Steve was interviewed by Mike Rivero and gives a candid interview of the conflict, from an Israeli Left-wing point of view that's deliberately buried in the US.

It's pretty clear to me that this Tinoire lady is the proverbial disinformation agent.


socrates said...

Myself and TLNL have been discussing this a bit over at his blogspot. There's even some explanation of how involved Tinoire was with the absurd cybersmear script put in place against yours truly. I'm not into reinventing the wheel. I've explained a lot of that at my "chemtrail" forum too. You can get there by clicking on my profile here.

"This website is not for you!"

Anonymous said...

What is your theory on why Tinoire if she is a rightwinger and these guys would be posing as communists? Are they collecting information? Are they trying to draw lefties into a cointelpro type trap by association with communism? Do you think the folks at Rigorous Intuition who are also at Progressive Independent are also a bunch of rightwingers? Just curious to know what you think all of these characters are up to. Thanks for the blog.

socrates said...

Thanks for posting. Feel free to do so.

This is a tough one. It boils down to mostly conjecture. We first would have to show the high probability that Tinoire has been part of a disinfo racket over the years. I guess there is always the chance she is a confused indidual.

I believe she is a form of Hal Turner. We can use Hal as an example of someone who's admitted to receiving an FBI paycheck and in return hamming it up in order "to draw out the crazies."

That might have been one aspect of Tinoire's schtick.

There is also the concept of controlled opposition. Democratic Underground and and especially Daily Kos used to be progressive forum superpowers. Of course, they have been middle of the road at best. There were going to be many lefty peaceniks needing a place to relocate. That's why I think forums such as Tinoire's, Randi Rhodes', Rigorous Intuition and even some dive I think called Democratic Warrior were created.

This is my tinfoil. I admit it. Perhaps these places sprung up spontaneously. I don't know for sure.

Tinoire is one of the best examples, imho, of what appears to have been a deliberately created internet persona.

I think she is a rightwinger for basically two reasons. For one, there are her deep ties to Michael Rivero and promoting Ron Paul. Secondly, she said she used to be in military intelligence. Until seeing that admission, I always figured she was just an army grunt, perhaps signed on for economic reasons. That wasn't an easy find of her post at some obscure Ronald Reagan forum. She seems to have made only that one reference to being military intelligence. I think she messed up, or else she would have owned it and explained how it influenced her evolving into a left winger.

Now to use that premise to theorise why she would pose as a hard core lefty. Hmmm. I guess to create that outlet for the predictable number of folks who would become disenchanted with DU and DKos. I went there. I tried all these various places before reaching my current status of being a nihilist in regards to there being a nice super forum to call a home. Fintan Dunne. HuffPost was too big, not even a forum per se. Randi Rhodes. Tinoire's. BradBlog. Even FSZ and Pffugee, because I wasn't aware of soapblox culture and DaveFromQueens, until after Political Flesh Feast had already closed shop. Dave unfortunately died. MyLeftWing, that's another one I tried. But that too quickly became an obvious fake lefty joint, once I dove into their archived history.


socrates said...

But to answer your question, and again, I admit this is just prose, albeit sincere and based on reading and reflection. I think Tinoire's plan was to make lefties and progressives appear as anti-semitic and into conspiracy theory. When this became obvious, the shift was made to turning PI into an ultra-far left forum. I also see that those guys are now astroturfing themselves as against conspiracy theory freakdom. I haven't actually read too much at PI. Maybe some of their posts and threads have some value. I think this final move was an attempt to scrub the fact that PI has been historically a haven for Jew haters and outrageous conspiracy theorists. I think they even had a lot of those no-planers posting for a while.

Tinoire had wanted to promote Michael Rivero. It was classic right woos left. I don't want to sound arrogant or deluded, but I do believe the cybersmear script backfired completely. The term Jewboy was used by Virgil. The poster who trolled me did talk up "the Jew card" and "those types of Jews." Tinoire has been proven to scrub her forum, when things like that become clear. She certainly has put a robots.txt on the wayback machine. It has become obvious that myself and The_Last_Name_Left are two separate persons. It has been shown that we have been posting about things such as right woos left that transcend who we are as individuals. I do think the recent awkward PI change from Joo hating, conspiracy theory forum to communist one was a direct reaction to my being able to get out the word about Tinoire's internet record. She messed with the wrong nobody, so to speak.

Perhaps collecting info was an original part of the plan. Nonetheless, I think it was more about making lefties look bad while propping up Rivero. An all your bases belong to us kind of approach.

So I agree with your phrase of "trying to draw lefties into a cointelpro type trap by association with communism." Another idea that comes to mind is that these people have tried to make it seem that at some point far right and far left become the same.


socrates said...

I see Rigorous Intuition as being more into paranormal and deep politics than expressing themselves as lefties. I'm not sure exactly what is now going on at that forum. As always and more so of late, I'll go lurking there yet find it difficult to find any threads of interest. I think the plan had been to create a ring of forums to become interlocked, but that this plan fell apart.

There are two posters at RI who did post at PI who come to mind as being enigmas, HughManateeWins and SeemsLikeADream. HughManateeWins, imho, is a disinfo writer. What confirmed that to me has been his distortion of his schtick concerning the CIA and FBI cointelpro. He also wants to have his cake and eat it too by supporting obvious disinfo merchants such as Lyndon Larouche and Alex Constantine. He wants people to think he is an intellectual. But you can't do that by disregarding the obvious natures of Larouche and Constantine. SeemsLikeADream may simply be a conspiracy theory freak. She is harder to pin down. DoYouEverWonder is another one. She may really be emotionally involved in the I/P topic and is sincere in what she does. But to be honest, there isn't enough time in the day to figure all these things out.

Dreamsend and Arcadia, I have bad feelings about them. Too much bait and switch. Same with the comparedtowhat character. Dreamsend recently peddled the idea that writer Kate Coe is comparedtowhat. That's similar to the over the top gobbledygook that has come out of HughManateeWins. I find it hard to believe such people are sincere in their kookiness.

I recently went through some old Jeff Wells posts at his blog. I saw that his coincidence theorists guide to 9/11 was kind of stupid. In theory, it's an interesting approach, but there are now too many broken links to look into it. I never got into 9/11 ct, and I'm not trying to open up a can of worms either way. I'd definitely like to see folks figure that out as academically as possible. But for the purposes of my theorising here, I checked out one of the examples Wells gave. It was about Neil Bush allegedly having been head of security at one of the WTC buildings. It turns out he wasn't. He was on the Board of Directors of a corporation that did have ties to the security industry. But that's a lot different than the stuff being put out about Neil Bush running security for the WTC.


socrates said...

Ironically and perhaps deliberately Fintan Dunne showed up in the comments of that entry. He invited Wells to be interviewed on his internet show. Surprise, surprise, two or so days later, Jeff Wells was on it. He's got quite a nasal voice and sounds very weak. I'm not sure who that guy thinks he's fooling.He knows myself and TLNL are two different persons. I showed on another thread here how Jeff had stabbed me in the back by not simply putting up my full rebuttal to false claims I am some multi-personality blog-wrecking troll. If he had done that like he agreed to, I would have moved on and probably forgotten about him.

I can offer my aircraft wings forum as a refuge for folks like yourself, if you want to try building up a better forum. I don't collect info. I don't ask for donations. I could even push down the "chemtrail" section and put a general discussion type one at the top. I did recently put sitemeter on this one for a few days, but it didn't really provide any good info. I can check out ip info on my other forum, if I'm on the site at the time. But I have seen that it doesn't really mean much.

I think part of a trap I fell for was worrying too much about that cybersmear script and getting trolled on. My blogging got better once I developed a sense that I had fought back enough to proved my sincerity. I then went back to just doing my own thing.

When I first got into blogging, I thought there was a chance for people to join forces and make a difference. Now I am sort of a nihilist about that, though never say never. I think creating pockets of awareness can be accomplished. It's not that I've changed my mind about 'chemtrails'.

In fact, over time I have developed a 100% belief that cirrus aviaticus has been produced and not as the result of ordinary aircraft emissions. But I now think there is a limit to making a difference on that topic, especially with the internet.

Anonymous said...

I don't get involved with most of these forums because most of them are crawling with "agents." What puzzles me is why are these boards crawling with agents? And when I say "agents" I mean people obviously spreading disinfo(like that Hugh Manatee bozo on RI). I think people are beginning to catch on to what is going on. There are a few on all sites that like to attach to certain subjects creating spurious associations to credible discussions. RI is one of the worst. You wrote a lot in your response will have to read through again, possibly sign up here some time and post another question or two. Good work on the Trollsmashing!

socrates said...

Yeah, sorry about that. I went into ramble mode.

Well, you're more than welcomed to get a blogger account and make posts here, or if you like, you are invited to sign up at the forum linked to in my username profile. Like I said, it had started out as a "chemtrail" forum, but I am more than willing to drop that down a peg in significance, if there are enough cool people into having a less limiting forum.

Hugh Manatee is a joke. He really had a good thing going. It had fooled me for a long time. If one doesn't read enough at a place, they may not see how irrational overall someone's posting patterns are. No way would someone intelligent into discussing psyops or whatnot on the net would promote Lyndon Larouche or Alex Constantine. That's some crazy thing he's been trying to pull off. It doesn't add up. Not to mention how much a caricature he became with that keyword hijacking idea.

Anonymous said...

The "rambling" is ok by me. The chemtrail forum is also fine. Don't change any of that. The main thing scaring people off right now is that the internet is a cesspool as you say or someone has said. And some sites like RI seem to be actively monitoring their membership. That's why I have wondered if RI and PI and sites like that are actually some type of cointelpro operation. The characters at RI seems to be deliberately seeking to draw in a certain type of personality and fuck with them. You can find evidence of it, if you read carefully what has been going on over there during some of their recent blowups regarding the Duncan story. In fact when ever cracks begin to get exposed in the RI facade it seems to happen around the Theresa Duncan story. The question is what is it all about? My own personal take is that there is some type of adhoc intelligence operation going on between two or more opposed factions. That's my "tinfoil" take. It could also just be a game that looks like an intelligence operation. Either way, people are not trusting the guys running these online communities. Don't change anything you are doing with your writings. You seem to be honest and people reading can see that. If you were otherwise people would start to call you on it. I don't see that. So people can post here with an anonymous message like I am doing. People are reading. I've been reading and lurking on these forums for a long time. I send your stuff to friends to check out who also see the bullshit spreading around the internet and wonder what its all about. I have to manage life in other areas though like my job so I don't get too much involved at this point but regular people are watching all of this and spreading the word so keep up what you are doing. Other people are getting involved and spreading the word and some of this is starting to sink in with the larger population. Sites like this are slowly but surely changing the playing field.

socrates said...

Thanks a lot. I truly appreciate it.

I hear you on the time constraints. I admit to having been somewhat a freak the last couple years. Of course I can't go on like this forever.

The best part of that is it feels like there's nothing else left to figure out. One person or even a hundred can't be expected to do much more than we did. It's going to take tens of thousands of bloggers to eventually turn this thing around.

One thing I learned a long time ago from this thinker genius. Me, I'm average. I work hard at it to compensate for my limitations. Anyway, this dude talked about the Soviet Union, about the people. He basically argued that despite all that state-controlled media and whatnot, word of mouth got the job done and many Russians knew what was going on for real.

America is the type of country Orwell was writing about with 1984. I agree with you that somehow against all odds regular nobodies like ourselves are figuring things out.

By the way, I totally agree with you on how RI flipped out with the Theresa Duncan story. Yes, it smells like deliberately planted convolution. By the way, I'll let you in on something. I was the one who let Kate Coe know that stalker boy was libelling her as that goofball poster at RI. I don't go near him or any of them. I'm done getting into discussions with convoluted bloggers.

In theory I'm against censorship. But I feel there's no way a totally free for all like Peeder's Political Flesh Feast is the way to go. Herbert Marcuse put it this way. One needs to be intolerant of tolerance. If not, then the status quo will always win. One idea that just popped into my head for an example is how incumbents have such an advantage in reelections. It's not like Democratic Underground, Rigorous Intuition, and BradBlog for three examples play fair, so why should we? I gotta get off the net.

Anonymous said...

You don't need to necessarily get off the net but don't overstress on this stuff. I'm of the opinion that the majority of people are beginning to see the nature of the political stunts that have been played on all of us. You write a lot of stuff. And it takes time to write it and for people to take it all in. And it is very useful to people reading. People are connecting dots. But you can't do all of the heavy lifting on this stuff by yourself and shouldn't feel like you have to. Most of these disinfo fucks are going to get caught up in their own webs of lies at some point. RI and the fucks on that site are already there, they're exposed as running some type of con. People can now see through it thanks to various people exposing it. So no need to stress. The world wide web is a gamebreaker, it's unforgiving for people in the habit of spreading lies and disinfo. People are starting to put it all together. Just a matter of time.

socrates said...

Thanks, that's good advice. To chill. To allow anyone interested to figure it out for themselves, to catch up. (any chance you can get a blogger id? being "anonymous" is kind of tough to follow. other anonymous as in trolls could show up and confuse the flow of our dialogue.)

I get so many ideas and have no one to really share them with. Every single person who appeared to be on the same wavelength eventually crossed me. Saying so has me run the risk of appearing as deluded and paranoid. Not much I can do about that. If I keep my mouth shut, that doesn't help explain anything either.

The ones who have been cool about it, this just isn't their cup of tea.

I see that Hugh Manatee Wins no longer cares how ridiculous he looks. He's calling the most innovative tv producer ever Norman "CIA" Lear. He's saying the show Maude was created to be a decoy to exposure of cointelpro. He really does come up with the goofiest writings.

He could very well be Jeff Wells. I'll agree with that strange person (on that) who can't seem to let Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake rest in peace. Maybe I'm a bit to blame too for recently getting into the Duncan story. Now he who shall not be named is posting some crazy chatter about Kate Coe being 'compared2what?'. Unfortunately, whenever dumbass rabbit holes are exposed, simply more digging is "their" response.

That's all pretty whacked out stuff. Makes me look good. While I'm not much. I have effectively created some pockets of awareness. And at least now the "fakes" have lost most of their juice.

If you've checked out that new Michael Connell thread, you'll see how some guy named Gus W. has run scared when faced with overwhelming proof that Brad, Brett, Larisa, and Cliff are forms of paid fake.

I'm not saying Gus is part of the scam. No way to prove it. But at a minimum, he has become a useful idiot. He's acting similar to anyone who calls out Jeff Wells and Andy yet in such a way as to argue that they are merely strawmen for the ultimate truth about sra and mkultra mind control. Those things are not going on at the governmental level. Such ideas are being fabricated by a few quacks like Colin Ross and promoted by internet disinfo like Constantine and Wells.

Trap people in tinfoil. That's how it's done. No war protests. No tax the rich, feed the poor. No job creation for masses of people.


socrates said...

Some jackass is trolling me, saying I am Jay Reynolds. (more like an army of trolls, picture the Blues Brothers being followed by various groups, e.g. the kkk, the police, et al.) Jay has been the #1 debunker of chemtrails since the beginning. If I'm not mistaken, he showed up as early as 1996. I found him on an old 1999 thread. Someone mentioned something about his work for three years. Reynolds didn't deny the timeline.

On that thread, one person mentioned strange clouds (cirrus aviaticus) forming due to aircraft emissions. A bunch of them actually did, how it didn't look right, how there was a new look in the skies. Reynolds retorted with the idea of photoshop.

I see that Jay Reynolds used to be a total right wing kook, as in conspiracy theory. One needs to go to the wayback machine for confirmation of that. He was closely aligned to total nutjob William Cooper. Cooper was the guy who said JFK's limo driver shot him. Now Hugh Manatee Wins is saying the boss of a tv show detective crew called the Mod Squad was called Greer to hijack that truthiness. That Maude was created to cover up the Mod part of Mod Squad. That it's also why some dude aligned with the Disclosure Project is named Greer. And the shithead who's been stalking me, one of the big stinkups between us was when I went after Carol Rosin, someone he was promoting, someone who was the proverbial infiltrator in the peace movement, someone with ties to that same Disclosure Project. She's the one who snuck the phrases chemtrails and extra-terrestrial space weapons into a draft of a Kucinich bill.

Said troll spent about 25 hours deleting nearly every post he ever made at a dive called Chemtrail Central. He replaced those posts with a generic one attacking myself. He was part of a controlled opposition between his disinfo crowd and Jay Reynolds' grouping. Patrick Minnis of NASA can be directly tied to that website. I tracked down elsewhere that the owner of said website admitted to working for NASA. I also proved that owner had scrubbed a post of his outing Minnis as a poster named Canex.

I think I know the name of the person who's been cyberstalking me. If correct, his wife works for NASA. The guy would be a Vietnam War vet who got doused with Agent Orange. That stuff has been shown to cause severe mental illness with some folks. If so, his job has appeared to troll the net as both a Hugh Manatee Wins caliber name, yet even bigger in a way, since he was mentioned prominently in a hoax put forth by Will Thomas, and as various sock puppets generating internet convolution. I uncovered the basic premise of such strategies back in late 2006. As I started to figure out Rivero and right woos left, the cybersmear script was fully put in place, one that has been fully documented. One that also links directly to the creep mentioned in the title of this specific thread; A person who has admitted to have worked for military intelligence.

Anonymous said...

I was banned from undemocratic underground recently – without any warning, and they never did respond to my requests (3) as to what rules I supposedly violated. The site lists rules but certain people violate the rules with alarming frequency, especially name calling. If you disagree with the pets on du you are a troll. Apparently you are not allowed to go on that site and try to have an educated, articulate debate regarding the health care bill (corporate giveaways), climate change (Al Gore & his Goldman Sachs buddies are setting themselves up to make billion$) or the questionable ties between MoveOn and Soros. And yes, I am a card carrying Democrat that does not like how the DLC has taken over my party. Several others have posted elsewhere that they have been banned for not being complete cheerleaders on that site. Has anyone dug into David Allen and who actually funds his DU site? Perhaps that's where we will find the answers.

socrates said...

Democratic Underground Directly Tied to the Democratic Leadership Council and Insidious Triangulation

Someone asked me that same question a month ago, so I put together the above diary.

I don't much about your issues. As long as you weren't denying global warming and backing up your stuff with good links, I don't think they had the right to ban you. Of course, if you want my honest opinion, I'd need your DU username to check it out.

I've been onto their racket for years since being unfairly banned in 2007. I wrote to get reinstated, but no one would respond. You are quite correct that the rules aren't enforced evenly.

Imho, DU is a DLC front, a moneymaker for the grifters who own it, and a playpen for disinfo merchants such as Brad Friedman, Larisa Alexandrovna, William Pitt, and many more over the years such as Andy Stephenson and various other asses affiliated with the likes of obvious disinfo creeps like Larry Johnson and Jason Leopold. It's a scam, no doubt.