This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Sunday, November 7, 2010

Parental Kidnapping Wave Tied to Satanic Ritual Abuse, Mind Control Schtick

Thanks go to Canadian Bob for sharing this story. I had never heard of this one. There was a local case concerning Stephen Fagan. He kidnapped his daughters, created a new identity, and told them their mother had died.

Bob provided a link listing the who's who of the "protective parent underground network."

I'm not saying Fagan had anything to do with them, only that his criminal action was the same type organised posses have committed over the years.

Two names popped up that are very familiar, Hal Pepinsky and Ted Gunderson. I only just learned of this today, so this won't be any big time expose. This should be seen more as a starter kit.

At the top of the list is Faye Yager.


Faye Yager has a laugh as she examines the
records of a judge presiding over one of her
cases.


If one is inclined to read a bit on her, here is a feature article done by Time Magazine. It goes on for a while, but later on some funky details are revealed. These are of the more information than one may want to know variety. But that's what a lot of this type of nonsense entails wading through to get to the bottom of it. That brings us to her buddy Ted Gunderson.

Today Ted Gunderson's name is synonymous with the phrase cuckoo bananas. However, before he went Colonel Kurtz on us, the man had serious gravitas.


You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.

As Ted explained, his life changed after he had been hired as an investigator for Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald. Before then he had no idea there was an illuminati which worships Satan.

Unfortunately for MacDonald, he had the poor man's O.J. Simpson explanation. Gunderson somehow got a nutjob named Helena Stoeckly to admit that she and other satanic cultists had been behind the murders of MacDonald's family. However, she denied any involvement when it came time to testify. There was no if the glove doesn't fit, you have to acquit moment of truthiness. The evidence against MacDonald was overwhelming.


Helena Stoeckly

Let's get back to Faye Yager. She and Teddy Gunderson seem to have been more than acquaintances. Though it was a bit of a struggle to find much info on that. One thing both of them certainly shared in common was their propensity to do the rounds on the Trash Talk Television Network.

Geraldo Guest Gets $5 Million
A man who was acquitted in 1986 of molesting his young daughter was awarded more than $5 million in damages for being defamed by members of the audience at Geraldo Rivera's talk show....

Spiegel's attorney, Stephen Haft, said Faye Yeager of Atlanta and Lydia Rayner of Gulfport, Miss., defendants in the 1988 federal slander suit, failed to file answers or appear at Monday's hearing. Haft said his client was a guest on the nationally televised show in 1988 when the defendants--wearing wigs and sunglasses--began berating Spiegel from the audience.

He said the women, who are associated with the national group Mothers Against Raping Children, had previously harassed Spiegel during a speaking engagement in California.
Here are a few choice excerpts from a 1996 Dallas Observer article. That story starts with a recap of a Sally Jesse Raphael trash talk episode starring Yager, but let's jump ahead to further nail down the satanic panic connection.
The campaign trail did little to distract Pat from her real mission: getting her daughter back. Crossing liberal lines, she enlisted the help of the National Organization for Women to picket the Collin County Courthouse. She passed out handbills at the Byron Nelson Golf Tournament accusing Judge White of being financially involved with the Connells. Her court allegations grew decidedly more bizarre. She claimed Pete and Kathy had exploited Alicia through pornography; that Kathy had taught Alicia how to masturbate; that Pete had physically abused Alicia; that the Connells were engaging in satanic rituals. As always, the new allegations were investigated and ruled unfounded or thrown out of court....

Based on information found at the house, Hulsey determined that Faye Yager and the Children of the Underground had aided Pat and Mark in their flight. They were probably being hidden at one of Yager's so-called safe houses: a motel, farm, a back room, anyplace that could offer sanctuary and anonymity while the heat was on.


link

Hal's been mentioned before on this blog. He even showed up and joined the conversation.

Hal's got a Phd and recently retired from Indiana University as a professor in criminology. I wonder how the folks in his department feel about him today. Are they aware of his deep involvement in spreading kooky, satanic panic beliefs?

Hal's on the Board of Directors for the North American Freedom Foundation. Its founder was none other than Kathleen Sullivan! Part of its mission statement says, "To bring attention to the existence of governmental and non-governmental mind control; slavery; and torture perpetrated in the United States and Canada."


from the Top 10 WTF Moments in Comics.

Courtesy of the wayback machine, here is Hal Pepinsky's letter to the editor of Time Magazine on behalf of Faye Yager. Being a gentleman, a scholar, and not a liar, I'll let Hal have the last word.
Fri, 8 May 1998 11:04:42 -0500 (EST)
harold e. pepinsky (pepinsky@indiana.edu)

Faye Yager's husband Howard called me a couple of nights ago to point out the Time story and to ask for some moral support. It seems that the Yagers have recently been subjected to a wave of threats and vandalism. I'm so sorry. At the risk of encouraging people to read a story which I think represents a very distorted caricature of Faye and how she does her work, here is a copy of the response I just e-mailed to the editor at Time.

1412 Nancy St.
Bloomington, IN 47401-6052
812-339-4303
May 8, 1998
Time Magazine
letters@time.com

To the Editor,

I have known Children of the Underground founder Faye Yager ("Hide and Seek," May 11) and closely followed her work for five years. She has been a guest in my seminar on children's rights and safety nine times since the fall of 1993. I in turn have visited and stayed with her in Atlanta, and reviewed files of evidence which I believe to be the largest and best archives of parental violence against children.

Faye is meticulous about requiring and examining documentation of violence before she helps anyone. I happen to have reviewed the notebook she put together for the case you feature in your cover story, where as I recall the evidence supported a whole series of court orders and an arrest in vain attempts to stop violence and threats to the mother, including in front of the children.

Southern Illinois University sociologist Joel Best has recently published a very careful examination of estimates of intra-familial child abduction, and has concluded that the true annual number of such abductions in the U.S. is closer to 8,000 than to the National Center on Missing and Exploited Children's figure of 350,000. I don't look on Faye as the one who is exaggerating and distorting facts here. She has become one of my most experienced, insightful, reliable teachers about violence against children and how we respond. I join many activists and professionals in honoring Faye's painstaking attempts to show us violence others hide from and deny, and in gratitude for the countless numbers of children she has helped escape horrific, often court-supported, parental violence.

Sincerely,

Hal Pepinsky
Professor of Criminal Justice
Indiana University

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) is a joke. Unfortunately I am part of the "Left Behind Parents" club. My daughter was abducted 2-years ago. With the NCMEC it's been one lie after another followed up by cover up after cover up. DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH THIS AGENCY IF YOU HAVE ANY HOPE OF FINDING YOUR KIDS! My daughter's story can be read here: http://greatnonprofits.org/users/reviews/58371. Over 90% of their funding comes from us, the US taxpayers, and they are accountable to no one...even Ernie Allen and his $1.4 million annual income is accountable to no one. There are better ways to bring our lost kids home. Reach out to me if you need help.

socrates said...

It's sad that so many child abductions by parents have been turned into a profit maker. I hope you find your daughter. It sounds like what your ex-wife did was crazy and selfish. I have no respect for Stephen Fagan or any other parent who kidnaps their own kids. No one's above the law. If there's any reason to fear the safety of children due to a spouse, work with police and social services. Don't upend a child's natural development because you hate the other parent enough to become some deluded vigilante.

Maybe there are some cases, where it can be somehow ethically accepted though illegal. We know of Thoreau's famous line about civil disobedience. However, what about the rights of the children? What about the parents who have had their loved ones stolen away without due process?

bob said...

Lots more (leaving out links for now) connections:
After Yager was arrested in 1990, she was contacted by members of the Montana Militias saying they had a lawyer who would love to help with her case. That would be John DeCamp, consigliere to the Montana Militias.

Connie Valentine of the California Protective Parents Association: "A state employee who works with mental health patients [Valentine] has been reassigned to administrative duties after her appearance on a nationally televised show in which she claimed a satanic cult forced her to kill people when she was a little girl".

Randy Noblitt, the "psychologist" who edited "Ritual Abuse in the 21st Century" and SRA-MC therapist Ellen Lacter are involved in Valentine's group.

From that TIME article: "Faye is a moth after the hot lights of news and talk shows. Geraldo, Sally Jessy Raphael, you name a show and she was there in Fabulous Faye getups, ranting not just about pervert dads but at times including homosexuals, Masons, judges and satanic cults on her list of unholy conspirators. She once said 70% of her cases involved cults"

Its hard not to be sympathetic to any parent who claims their spouse or partner is abusing their kids, because there really have been cases where abusers were awarded sole custody of kids they had victimized. But the SRA-MC community are the LEAST CAPABLE PEOPLE ON EARTH to make a rational assessment about how endangered a child might be. Pepinsky may have some knowledge of custody dispute law, but he admits to suffering "paranoid psychotic episodes"! Valentine, Lacter, Noblitt, Kathleen Sullivan, GUNDERSON? - all deluded, delusional paranoids. How many children have been "disappeared" from their families, their communities, their countries even, because one of these nutters or their associate-informants interpreted a parent buying a book on NUmerology as a sign they were preparing to ritually slaughter their own children, or something equally asinine.

socrates said...

Thanks, Bob.

Links are always appreciated, though I can understand time constraints. In general, I do trust you.

Thanks for filling in the satanic panic connection better. I admit my presentation was somewhat thin and open to rebuttals of being smears by association.

Hal admitting to having "paranoid psychotic episodes" is fascinating. I just googled it and found some links at the top of the search engine.

From Hal's own blogspot

By 1996 when my classes were already filled with accounts of intergenerational, essentially satanic ritual torture and murder, and when I had stumbled upon two long-time active ritual torture sites near my home, when I was so scared for my family that I was having paranoid psychotic episodes....

He also answered one of my questions in that post.

.... while colleagues especially regarded my stories about ritual abuse and mind control to be professionally bankrupt.

Aah, I see you showed up in the comments, but Hal didn't respond.

I actually feel bad for him. He seems like a nice dude but just got caught up in something for some reason he bought into.

You have to wonder about a college professor who would proudly write:

I was privileged to be included in Neil Brick’s SMART conference from its inception until my retirement.


Bob, I might have your email somewhere to be able to reinvite you. I've already done so for donkeytale. Or you could set up your own blogspot or website and provide the links, and I'll copy and paste any entries you'd like to have showcased by this humble blog. Take it easy.

bob said...

Socrates said:
"I actually feel bad for him. He seems like a nice dude but just got caught up in something for some reason he bought into".

I had similar thoughts, before I explored his writings and activity in depth. When I realized that his life experiences (the paranoid psychotic episodes and what led to them) directly contradicted his professed theory of "peacemaking", I had to re-evaluate the meaning & purpose of all his work from the publication of "Peacemaking Criminology" to the present.

Pepinsky has been a big booster for "restorative justice", a valid and progressive concept. In particular, "making restitution" to their victims from within the community can help offenders to develop a stake in the wellbeing of those persons and the rest of their community, rather than rotting in prison becoming more bitter and hate-filled every day.

But, consider the woman from our friend's SMART conference expose - the one whose parent's "confessed" to an informal tribunal of Mormon church leader-inquisitors. Now imagine informal Ritual Abuse Tribunals in every community, where no critical analysis of a complainant's allegations is made, where people like Sue Ford are encouraged to spew their victimization fantasies in full gruesome detail and it is all accepted as reality, as "the truth". Imagine falsely accused persons being approached by the tribunal leaders, who tell them: "Look - there are these accusations against you. Pretty horrific stuff. A criminal court would never be able to convict you on them, but you'll never be able to prove your innocence either. Participate in our Tribunal, confess to everything and NAME THE OTHER MEMBERS OF YOUR SATANIC COVEN NETWORK, especially the leaders, and you won't face charges in a criminal court. You won't go to prison, but you'll probably have to make a cash restitution settlement with your victims"

I no longer have an feelings of sympathy for Pepinsky. I think he's one of the most dangerous persons in America.

socrates said...

It's clearly a bizarre situation. I agree it's not easy empathising with anyone that closely affiliated to the SMART conferences. It's tough to imagine how people can so obviously lose their minds and believe such craziness. The whole state of Utah is run by one of the cults you just mentioned. Mormons believe in a racist, convoluted fiction. I bet most of the academics who spread the satanic panic come from that or similar backgrounds, such as evangelicals. Apparently some people shouldn't be allowed to attend universities. What a crazy, fricken world this is.

Doug Mesner said...

This is great material. It is always incredible to me when people have the lack of sense to ask me what harm is it to anybody else if these people somehow feel more comfortable, are able to somehow make sense of the world, by maintaining their delusional beliefs. Not only does it seem self-evident to me that this is hardly the optimal situation for the conspiracy theorist him/herself, but what happens when they act upon their beliefs? How can it NOT be dangerous for any group – even a marginal fringe group – to spread folklore as fact? Folklore which serves to demonize very specific groups and individuals. How horrifying the prospect of these demented paranoiacs stealing children away and indoctrinating them into a narrative that consists of their abuse at the hands of blood-thirsty Satanists who hide among us in plain sight. Further, along these lines, it distresses me to find that one Bobbi Gagne, a former S.M.A.R.T. conference speaker, is director of the Sexual Assault Crisis Team (SACT) in Washington County, VT. If Gagne still holds to the conspiracy theories purveyed by S.M.A.R.T. she has absolutely no place as any type of counselor for vulnerable women in moments of crisis.

socrates said...

Maybe this has had a lot more to do with the Geraldos and Sally Jesse's of the tv world than at first thought. There's the adage that if something is on television, it must be true. It's the opposite for the internet.

Orson Welles was fascinated by what makes people believe things that aren't true. He probably developed that curiosity after producing War of the Worlds.

You are correct that these people aren't just deusional but can pose actual threats.

Amanda Knox is rotting in an Italian prison due to the satanic panic.

I don't think we'll ever completely figure out what is the result of delusion versus greed or a spectrum including varying degrees of both. Though many times we can get pretty darn close.

I see Colin Ross showed up in the comments at your Process website. He basically tried to normalise the situation.

Pepinsky came here several months ago trying to do the same.

I don't think Hal is a grifter. Colin Ross, well, I'd like to know how much money he has made off of things, e.g. his working with Roseanne and all his other stuff.

I just went googling. I didn't know there was almost a mind control conference in Boston.

There was some chatter about threats being made against at least one speaker.

I think maybe the fools didn't want to enter your geographical area. You'd be hard pressed to find many who believe the world is flat. If the same could be said of the satanic panic, perhaps this business would finally dry up for good. You are definitely at the forefront of exposing these nutjobs. Maybe the ptb's of this branch of satanic panic didn't want to risk damaging publicity arising by showing up on your turf.

I was going to write up something on Julian Assange, but I might switch gears and do another satanic panic entry. I just found a Colin Ross book through google books. The guy definitely has writing skills. It's troublesome that someone could turn fantasy into sounding as academic truth. It'd be nice if somehow a bloke like Hal was deprogrammed and joined your (our) side. Howard Stern used to believe in the War on Terror. But then he came out before the 2004 election claiming his President had lied to him. That had to have helped John Kerry's prospects yet ultimately not enough. We could use duped people like Hal seeing a similar light. That would have to help stop mentally ill folks being continually duped. There are real victims here. If Hal would come back, I have one question for him. Where's the proof? You're a smart kid, Hal. There's no there, there.

Doug Mesner said...

"I think maybe the fools didn't want to enter your geographical area."
Funny you should say that. I was actually registered to attend that conference. Some people I know speculate that this was the reason it was canceled, but I only posted my Ross piece after the conference was aborted.
In Ross's replies to my article (which were spread out over more than one site), he ultimately declined to answer direct questions regarding his belief in Satanic Panic narratives, offering instead to defend his theory of "extramission", the idea that one's eyes emit a distinct ray of EEG. At the time, I stated that this was not my interest, nor was it the point of my article, thus I wasn't going to allow the topic to be changed to his benefit. Well, since then (wouldn't you know it?) I found myself looking over Ross's extramission material and finding serious problems with it. I have organized a replication of his experiment (to his own revised protocol, being that he admitted to problems with the first). This replication should take place within the next month at Yale. You are correct: Ross understands how to write in an academic format. Flaws in the Repressed Trauma theory are not difficult to find, and plenty of critical literature has been published. I look forward to reporting on Ross's scientific rigor in this new endeavor of his, after we run our test.
I think you're right that Hal's your best bet if you're looking for somebody to come to his senses. That being said, I still think it's a disappearingly small chance that he'd retract. I did have the opportunity to chat with him when I attended the SMART conference, and he was extremely amiable, and even lucid. It was only when he began speaking of SRA rubbish that a glazed look overtook him and he seized to appear fully aware. He had a little Q & A at the end of his lecture. On the audio you can just hear half of my question. Hal had been speaking about how nobody was truly good, nobody was truly evil... a kind of post-modern subjective reality ramble. It all sounded rather 'blank slate' to me. I come in and ask about "...the idea of finding genetic correlates to behaviors... Or brain assemblies that indicate psychopathy."
Hal answers (transcribed from audio):
"Thank you for that. Just as I don't believe that there is any such thing as a single personality, or there is such thing as physiological vs. emotional, I believe that all that we do is at once a hunnerd percent genetic, a hunnerd percent physiological, a hunnerd percent sociological, a hunnerd percent psychological... ALL AT THE SAME TIME. And the only kind of question that I think makes sense in terms of how we intervene is: h'where in the system does it seem easiest to start?...So, maybe it's medication... or, maybe it's... listening... But it doesn't have to be one or the other. That's part of the categorization of ourselves that I think puts ourselves in jeopardy..."
I had no idea what to make of his answer, but I do think Hal's questioning of reality (if I understand anything he said) may imply a questioning of these deeply held conspiracy theories. Just the same, I think he might feel far too beholden to this demented network, feel too strongly that he would be betraying close friends, to ever retract now...

socrates said...

Now that I think of it, you might have mentioned the Boston conference, but I forgot about it.

I had never heard of any parental kidnapping network until Canadian Bob brought it up. It seems you are new to this too. This is how the internet should work. Basically sincere people watch each other's back. Academics teaches us to not reinvent wheels. So we take what others provide, reconstruct it in our own words, try to add to it.

I would definitely like Hal to return either here or on your turf or if he feels more comfortable to do so at his own blog. He's definitely a nice guy, no doubt.

I want to hear his "best evidence."

Perhaps his blind spot has been coming from Indiana, which could be up there with Utah and Arizona for being backward. I know I risk sounding like an elitist Northerner. So be it.

I think nearly every person who is confused about reality developed that condition through childhood. I agree with Alice Miller's theory of the regressive, repetitive compulsion. Future trauma is more about reliving past ones.

I think heavy drug use by teenagers, parental or other abuse suffered at an early age is the cause of most problems. I think we are all born with a clean slate for the most part. I am a nurture over nature kind of dude. Though I can see how body chemistry can make one more susceptible to experience life as perpetual crisis.

Hal sounded like he's saying we have to look at all the various factors that influence individual psyches. I agree with you that he could be too invested in believing in state-sponsored satanism to ever be reached. I run the risk of having the same thing said about me concerning "chemtrails." It's not that I'm unsympathetic to his position. I do sense a big difference between him and Colin Ross in regards to intellectual honesty.

Ross trying to change the subject with yourself was a tell, imho. Perhaps Hal's propensity to avoid debate with us is more akin to a Greta Garbo-ish wanting to be left alone or only be with like-minded people who believe in that same stuff.

Doug Mesner said...

yeah - credit where credit due: bob opened my eyes to this kidnapping ring, compelling me to file a few FOIA requests. but then, if i remember correctly, last time i was in a conversation with you guys, i was accused of BEING bob, so i guess my acknowledgment to him only means anything to anybody who hasn't decided to believe i'm merely having a dialogue with myself here.

socrates said...

Maybe more people don't speak out, because it's kind of obvious where the truth lies.

The sock puppet suggestions get taken too far. It's been happening to me for years. You wouldn't believe the convolution that has been thrown my way simply because I developed blogging as a hobby.

You might also want to check out the Amanda Knox story. The prosecutor was supplied the motives for a shocking murder by some cheesy psychic or whatnot who wrote lurid stuff on so-called satanic cults.

The story I remember most from looking into this shite is Susan Polk. That's a goldmine to link whackjob psychiatrists to the satanic panic, people who should have known better, like Hal should. A guy like Colin Ross, to me he is more akin to an old-school carnival, as in what Barnum said. Hal just seems like somewhere he got confused inlife, but it wasn't enough to keep him from succeeding in the main stream. I pity him. I don't like Colin Ross. He smells like a con artist.

Freedom Is Sacred said...

Merry Christmas, one and all. I am half-way through the comments but I just realized that my latest video-comment might be the kind of present you'd like. It's about the religious hub (NEIRR) out of which the spokes of those imaginary SRA tribunals may one day spring, should good hearted souls fail to prevail. It's in the top of my blog.

Now I will go back to read some more of your comments.

socrates said...

Thanks again for posting. Feel free to add comments, and I will publish them right away. Also feel free to post anything you like on the new threads that emerge. Blogger seems to be kind of a drag for having conversations in the archives. So off-topic is definitely allowed. I got into the satanic panic type stuff a while back. I'm sorry you missed it in real time, when this place was active discussing it.

Freedom Is Sacred said...

I think this topic deserves revisiting because it is emerging in a part of the universe where progressives rarely tread and it is really really ugly, this time, since the first wave was pre-internet.

Actually, this new form of witch-hunting is slightly different from the original but closely related.

Neil Brick's weird little group has some very active cousins who have moved from trying to bust up eccentric religious communes to stalking and attacking individuals based on the notion that for some reason, the targetted individual should be working with them to bring down the commune. This can be an ex-member, or a relative of a member, or someone who just stumbles across the group and doesn't see a problem, a live-and-let-live type of person.

The NEIRR has a safe-house in Lakeville, Massachusetts where people are actually placed, adults, for the crime of having joined some communal group their family did not like. It adds up to a concept that we are all lifetime slaves of our parents, therefore atheist parents can slam you for getting religion and religious parents can slam you for joining any kind of collective.

The anti-satanics around Neil Brick have a special concentration on the poor guys in the Freemasons (who'da thunk funny handshakes were so bad?) but these others like the New England Institute of Religious Research are very wide-ranging and running almost completely under the radar.

Neil Brick's lawsuit against Doug Mesner is dangerous, and Doug's plight is serious, because the religious right is running a very effective sock-puppet set of groups that appear too ridiculous to concern others.

Buried in his lawsuit, from what Doug told me, is an attempt to subpoena Doug's google accounts.

Which leads to those accounts being spread to the conspiracy-obsessive stalker networks.

One of which is run out of NEIRR in Lakeville, and includes least ex-military commando wanna-bes right there in Massachusetts.

Did you know about that?

Do you wanna know about that?

Freedom Is Sacred said...

The family kidnapping business has expanded to include private "safehouses" that are capitalizing on the original battered-women's-shelter precedent to fool the public into thinking people are being protected from dangerous evil brainwashers and there is a big center of it right there in Lakeville Massachusetts that has been expanding. The allergy that people on the so-called Left have to the non-atheist average person has blinded them to the reality of this fascist arm of the Right, which is not sticking to blog-postings but which uses its board to post physical stalking info on private individual members of small groups. Families pay a fee to these people to have individual members stalked, regardlesss of the fact their relatives are adults.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FreedomIsSacred#p/u/2/UqP31ZGsyb4

Freedom Is Sacred said...

Here is more on the NEIRR soft-kidnap ring (soft-kidnap being where they lure the person to a meeting, then use family to blockthe door and grab them into a "safe-house", instead of hard-kidnap where strangers drive up to them in a car and snatch them off the sidewalk. Police usually refuse to deal with soft-kidnap cases.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFuf-WR6Mtg

socrates said...

Sometimes both sides can stink. This topic could be beyond my abilities to personally figure out.

From Wikipedia, it says "The Morning Call quoted a director of the Institute, George Mather, as instructing community residents that Satanists perform rituals during Halloween to summon demons."

The link given in the footnotes doesn't work.

On the other hand, I do not think it's a good idea to refer to cults as merely eccentric.

I think someone should kidnap Utah and deprogram the whole state.

Scientology is nutso. I'm looking for facts with concrete links. I don't go much for proseltysing by anyone, whether it's from evangelical cult busters or the outrageous junk supplied by crazy believers.

Freedom Is Sacred said...

You are right, it is beyond anyone's personal abilities to figure out because it is so wide-ranging. One has to choose a piece to chew on. There are indeed dangerous cults, and so it is important to be alert to when the "dangerous cult" brush is used to paint people, as individuals, at random. That is what I think is happening.

As I said, the move lately is from trying to expose dangerous groups to grabbing individuals who don't even belong to the groups, but who refuse to give information or co-operate, sometimes about family members.

I plan to continue to poke at this subject in my amateur fashion and I hope others will be alert to the intensified activity of the religious vigilantes. What you see these vigilantes claiming about some of the so-called cults is every bit as false as the Fells Acres case was. And they are hired, they are actual mercenaries.

socrates said...

You're making strong accusations without any proof.

Nothing personal, but you can't expect people to sit through your video blogs.

Can you provide some examples with solid links of this NEIR so-called "soft-kidnapping?" You saying things on a video blog is not proof, and you can't expect people to sit through them. I don't watch those kinds of presentations.

We need news links, and forum chatter doesn't count.

You wrote that family members pay a fee for their relatives to be stalked. You can't accuse people of things without backing it up.

It's your responsibility to do the homework for readers, not me.

Anonymous said...

my mom was on that episode in disguise. can anyone give me a link to watch it? She was also on the mark Wahlberg and Geraldo show that week. I could talk for days about Faye.