This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Sunday, January 23, 2011

Death by Internet in Arizona

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-AZ, seen in this June 21, 2007 file photo.
UPI/Roger L. Wollenberg/FILE

I've definitely lost the blogging bug. If it weren't for a few good people popping in over the last year, I would've chilled out a lot sooner. It just all seems so very pointless.

It was bad enough to find out the major "lefty" boards had unfair, moderating procedures. That made it impossible to discuss on those actual sites why they were being more a mirror of fascism than old-fashioned, goody two-shoed progressiveness. There was no way to change the blogging system from within.

Now seeing all these nutjobs from Von Brunn to Joe Stack to Loughner coming out of the woodwork and creating violence, the whole enchilada has become downright nasty and creepy.

I'm not saying folks shouldn't be proud of their pissing into the wind efforts. It hasn't really been that insignificant either. I do believe in pockets of awareness and perhaps even a collective consciousness.

There will always only be the few who get it. The 100th monkey will not be walking through that cyber door. There will be no revolution. 1984 has won. We are born, we do what we do, and then we die.

I believe there is a soul which goes with our bodies. After death, the soul enters a newborn body as in reincarnation. I can't prove this. But no one can prove it isn't true either.

In short, there is spiritual and material. Internet nutjobs who self-imploded had become too attached to the rotten world we live in through cyberspace. They soaked in conspiracy theory and took it far too seriously. If we had access to their biographies, we could probably put two and two together.

They had to be lacking in the basics that go beyond food and shelter. I'm talking about love and education. Loughner couldn't have been in love or else he'd never have thrown away his or others' lives. Same with Joe Stack and Von Brunn. They each bought into crap that's been posted all over the internet.

a younger, more innocent Loughner

Thankfully, it doesn't seem like he's going to flip out and cause violence and mayhem. However, for every Larry who can keep it real within his own fragmented spirit, there are probably more Loughners out there germinating into menaces to society.

All we can do is try to be good and keep reaching for love and enlightenment. Maybe once things hit rock bottom, the government will be forced to push left. We can hope so. We can be ready when it happens to do our part in helping real lives. That will have nothing to do with the internet.

Unless someone can come up with an earlier example, I think I've found the first instance of death by internet. His name was Steve Kangas.

first official case of death by internet?

I socratised his story. Seeing that the reader decides, it's up to each of us to come to terms with social reality. You can agree with my conclusions, disagree, not care either way, or come up with your own perspective.

He had become a lefty after being a conservative. He had been in the military. He was a big time blogger in the usenet days. He was kind of the original Dave From Queens. Though I think Dave was in full control of his faculties and definitely could have eventually become Mayor of New York City. There are few and far in between potential leaders like Dave Weintraub was. His early death was similar to John Lennon or MLK dying young. We can only wonder what if they had lived.

I'm not saying Dave would have ended up an icon like those two, but you never know.

a great man

I think Dave's downfall was going on a crash diet. His heart couldn't handle it. I don't believe Dave was unhinged in his going after Daily Kos trolls. They deserved to be exposed, and Dave was the one who got it done.

Old-school movie legend Laird Cregar died at age 28
after undergoing a crash diet

Not only that, Dave had a body of work that transcended his internet experience. He did street theatre. He confronted Hannity's boy Mark Levin at book signings.

I'm not seeing the same accomplishments out of Steve Kangas. I believe his claim to fame was being a prolific blogger and nothing else. Dave was an attorney activist. He was not anal retentive with conspiracy theories, but he didn't go into them either. He was going to allow one day a week where people could get into it at DFQ. Nonetheless, Dave was not a conspiracy theorist, just an old-school liberal angry with what his beloved Daily Kos had turned into.

Kangas, on the other hand, by the end became a flaming conspiracy theorist. Now of course there is much to be exposed concerning the CIA, the Military-Industrial Complex, etc.. However, Kangas became kind of unhinged with it from what I can see via archives.

Kangas' similarities with Dave pertained to how they both had gone after right wing media. Steve's primary target was Richard Mellon Scaife. Kangas was found shot dead in the bathroom of Scaife's office building.

Some conspiracy theorists would like us to believe it was a hit by Scaife. No, from what I've gathered, Kangas had bought the gun in question and killed himself. He had traveled far to get to that building with said weapon. I read one explanation on the JREF forum which makes a lot of sense.

Kangas was so messed up his plan was to murder Scaife. When no opportunity for that arose, he killed himself out of embarrassment or self-pity.

I admit this blog entry was mailed in. I'm just not so into this anymore. Yeah, there have been cycles in the past, lulls turning into more writing. I just don't feel I will ever get back into the swing of blogging anywhere near as much as I have in the past.

The Last Name Left has been blogging a bit on Jared Loughner. His recent entry is titled, "Loughner was member at conspiracy forum - AboveTopSecret." A conspiracy theory freak named Larry showed up and blabbed about myself thinking JFK was killed by a conspiracy. He was trying to make some point with TLNL. Personally, I don't have any desire to interact with that person. TLNL yes. He's a nice, thoughtful person from Wales. Larry writes some of the most vile things. He's what is referred to as a troll. He used to get published by Alex Jones. Anyone that cares for more context on him, you can check out my National Wingnut Appreciation Day thread. Here is the exchange we had at The Last Blog Left. I won't edit the posts but will chop some down for clearer reading.
Larry: So believing in conspiracies makes you dangerous? Your buddy Socrates believes in the JFK conspiracy. I guess he was involved in the Loughner shooting right?

You're a boob

Me: The point is people who are fixated on conspiracy theories like you Larry are potentially more dangerous than the everyday, common slob.

You were taken to the woodshed a long time ago, and it's no longer necessary to debate anything with your gutter breath mouth. You prominently link to Rense, Illuminati this and that, and tons of other crap.

Conspiracy as a word is legit. Conspiracy as in how people like you sound like nutjobs is not.

From what I briefly read, TLNL, it appears Loughner was one of those NASA fakes Moon and Mars landings. I'm not sure.

I do know that one picture of him as a skinhead says plenty. Sure there are some good skinheads, as in people who like to shave their heads and aren't racist.

Maybe Larry and his ilk stick up for that kind of guy because they are almost looking into the mirror of their own thinking processes.

Someone made a good point on another forum. Loughner wasn't a lefty. He was more of the gold nut types coming out of Rivero and Alex Jones with a spice of Above Top Secret.

It's not that there aren't crazies on the left too. It's just obvious where the violent trends are being pushed, which is on the right, as you have a keen awareness of.

I'm burned out from blogging. It seems like an utter waste of time. It doesn't even seem that fun as a hobby anymore. But if I get a new entry up, I am going to touch on this Loughner story. Not much, because it's already been done to the hilt. I found another story of death by internet, maybe one of the first. The guy was on the left after changing from the Republican side of things. The point is, these events transcend politics in that the individuals are not in control of their faculties. Yet they don't transcend politics in that it's easily shown where they have been getting the gumption to go crazy with violence. That comes from the right.

Larry: So, would Thomas Jefferson or James Madison have shot Giffords? They believed in the gold standard too---thats why they included it in the Constitution, you dickweed!

(on my skinhead schtick) Your point is? Or do you just like hearing yourself talk?

(on being taken to the woodshed and on his gutter mouth) Oh really, I was??? When was I "taken to the woodshed"??? Care to enlighten me on that? "no longer necessary to debate"----lol. Translation: Because I have taken YOU and the last asshole left to the woodshed! Look at my story about Andy Ostroy on my blog. Proof the "LEFT" indulge in hate rhetoric as well! TLNL has AVOIDED my story.

(on being told he has a similar mind to conspiracy theory freaks like Loughner) WHEN did I stick up for him?? Im listening. Because we support his right to have a gun because the 2nd amendment does too????? Youre INSANE.

(on how freaks like him are potentially more dangerous than everyday slobs like myself) Proof of that?? Of course you dont! The 9-11 inside job belief is a FAR-LEFT view [considered far left]. Funny how you say its RIGHT wing when almost all 9-11 truth people HATE Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and every other right wing person in his administration. And I constantly write stories condemning these assholes----but dont let THAT deter you from calling me RIGHT wing!

Most 9-11 truth people consider CHENEY behind it all---but according to you, they are RIGHT wing...LOL.

(You can go to the thread linked to above and read the whole thing for yourselves. I refuse to copy and paste his quotes of me. It's spam. I try not to quote people when I'm interacting with them. I used to. It now seems kind of pointless. There are plenty of posts on that thread I won't be pasting on this entry.)

Larry: Socrates is allowed to believe in at least ONE conspiracy, and he's still perfectly normal. But if I believe in 5 or 6, Im "nuts" right?

Me: I believe in three topics which would be considered conspiracy theory- the JFK Assassination, chemtrails, and that there are fake posts being put all over the internet for various, insidious objectives.

There's a big difference between myself and Larry's form of conspiracy thinking. Anyone can check out my chemtrail board and see where I'm coming from, what arguments and whatnot I have presented. They can see I tried to be logical and back things up with proof.

The JFK Assassination is definitely not an off the wall conspiracy theory.

It has also been shown that Air Force intelligence and others are into posting on the net. They say they will be upfront when they do so, but who knows.

There's Netvocates, the Rendon Group, Advantage Consultants, and a number of other firms who have been exposed astroturfing. Some of their clients are military and government.

Larry on the other hand is a raging lunatic when it comes to conspiracy theory postulating.

With such a gutter mouth to go with his naivety, he doesn't realise that most people don't bother reading such unhinged rubbish.

TLNL, I'm just totally bored with blogging at this point.

Most blogs and guests are too stupid. Good people got driven off the major boards. There are too many trolls and stupid posts. I know you don't like the word troll, but I can't think of a better one.

Larry: so, if the next shooter believes in chemtrails, can we blame YOU Socrates??

Ahhh yes, but NO PROOF whatsoever for that statement. I have denunked EVERYTHING you cumturds have said....everything! This is why TLNL has IGNORED all of my stories on Loughner---he cant defend who I condemn in my stories.

Me: Cumturds? And you're not a latent homosexual? Dickweed, cum, faggots, you sure do post a lot of homosexual imagery. Studies show you are a closeted homosexual. You basically hate yourself.

You are the poster child for why certain people should not be on the internet. You're completely fucked up.

I don't discuss anything with foul-mouthed scum like yourself. It's not because you're uneducated. It's because you're anti-social and deranged.

In my new blog entry I just wrote that thankfully you don't seem to be someone who will commit violence. Now I'm not so sure.

Don't even bother responding to it when it finally gets posted. I don't understand why TLNL let's you shit on his blog. I mean I do. He's into free speech or something. But even he has had to delete your posts because they got too toxic.

Seek some mental health help, Larry. I think when you come to terms with being a homosexual, you'll be much more relaxed and maybe even find your true love afterall. I pity any woman who ends up your wife. Jerk.


the_last_name_left said...

Kangas was someone I got interested in during early noughties. Did he use the term 'octopus' for the tentacles of corruption and conspiracy reaching everywhere?

And he was looking into Scaife, was he? I'd forgotten that, not having known anything much about Scaife at the time. [I've mentioned before how I've grown to suspect Scaife behind Rivero and Alex Jones et al - or at least funding their sources etc.]

Tired of blogging? Disillusioned? Take a break, recharge the batteries, feggitabout it all. Something will happen once you've recuperated. :D

socrates said...

In regards to 'octopus', you're confusing Kangas for Danny Casolaro. The latter was a real journalist. While his murder has been extensively written on through the net, I don't consider that a death by internet.

I think conspiracy freaks tried to turn Kangas' demise into the same as Casolaro. That he figured out too much and got knocked off.

You can google Octopus murders. It might be something you want to research. I warn you that there's a lot of muck to get through to reach the nuggets.

Scaife is definitely bad news, no doubt there. It wouldn't surprise me either if he was the funding behind Rivero, Jones, et al. Certain people like him, Willis Carto, Lyndon LaRouche, Gunderson well, something reeks bad about their activities including their online manifestations.

I hear you on giving blogging a rest and then coming back strong. I actually enjoyed writing this one. My expectations were low and I didn't lose any sleep over it. It is what it is.

The blogger stats are working again. This blog got a lot of page views peaking in December (well over 5,000). I wish they calculated unique hits. It's nice to have the stats they provide nonetheless.

It just seems pointless. Kangas showed that. He was one of the more popular bloggers for a nobody. Then he went nutty and killed himself.

I wouldn't do that, but I can see how too much of it can be an emotional drain.

After donkeytale kept attacking me, I dug a bit more on him. He wrote years ago that he has few friends. He wrote that he's a polemicist who exaggerates his points in debates. I don't have time for such mind games. I don't mind a bit of ribbing once in a while, but that was too much.

I think there's a middle ground between his thinking what we uncovered is irrelevant with it being very significant. I shouldn't have even mentioned his name. It's because of people like him and Larry, that I no longer enjoy blogging.

Larry said...

"They had to be lacking in the basics that go beyond food and shelter. I'm talking about love and education. Loughner couldn't have been in love or else he'd never have thrown away his or others' lives. Same with Joe Stack and Von Brunn. They each bought into crap that's been posted all over the internet. There's this guy named Larry who's got the same personality type."

This is grounds for a lawsuit buddy. Remove it or you will sued for slander. I am NOT fucking kidding.

socrates said...

The one sentence isn't needed.

You're a joke. You don't mind throwing around a lot of ad hominems like a 12 year old punk. Then someone calls you a name, and you start talking lawsuits.

You talk up freedom of speech, but here you are showing your true colours.

Don't bother posting here, Larry. It will be deleted. You're an insignificant blogger with a lot of illogical rage. Authorities should keep an eye on you. It's like you're warning the public you could be the next Jared Loughner.

socrates said...

That would be libel too not slander. Moron. It's actually neither. This is just another example of how unhinged you are.

the_last_name_left said...

I have been trying to remember where it was that Larry seemed to be threatening violence. Even as we warned him against it. Where was that?

Can you remember?


Kangas / Calastaro? Ah, y, I'm blending them into one.....hehe.

socrates said...

That sounds familiar. I'll try to find that, but it might be difficult.

It's no big deal you confusing Kangas with Casolaro. The conspiracy nuts tried to spin Kangas' demise as being similar to Dan's. That he had uncovered harmful dirt on Scaife similar to what Casolaro had come up with.

The problem with that is Casolaro was a real journalist who was uncovering real, hidden corruption at top levels. Perhaps he was also being funnelled disinfo to muddy the waters. I definitely don't think Casolaro killed himself.

Larry said...

"The conspiracy nuts tried to spin Kangas' demise as being similar to Dan's. That he had uncovered harmful dirt on Scaife similar to what Casolaro had come up with."

Ahhh, but you accept the JFK conspiracy, but youre not a conspiracy nut huh??

If you didnt think your comment was defamation, why did you delete it? What you said is way more than name calling, it's saying Im just like a guy who shot 6 people, when there has NEVER been a comment on my blog advocating violence.

socrates said...

There were witnesses in the grassy knoll who contradicted the official explanation. There was that guy with his family feet away from JFK when the fatal shot was fired who said the shot came from the grassy knoll direction rather than the depository. There's also that thingie about "back and to the left."

You prominently link to Rense and illuminati whatever websites. You used to get published by Alex Jones and still promote him despite normal people seeing the guy is beyond being a fruitcake.

I deleted the line because you requested it, not because I feared being sued. You do think like them. You think like Alex Jones. That doesn't mean either of you will become the next instigator of death by internet. Yet, imho it does make one wary that one of you could explode. You guys are so angry, like Kangas was with Scaife. However, no one can be arrested for what they think or may do. There are probably many folks who have similar thoughts as Loughner, Stack, and Von Brunn but will never act on them.

Some guy named Ormond Otvos said Joseph Stack was heroic. That implies he admired his flying a plane into a building. It doesn't mean he can be arrested for thinking so, but it does not sound very promising.

I think someone like you who is so full of rage could be a potential safety threat. You think writing that opinion is an act of libel? Based on all the nasty comments you make towards others, I am amazed you would even think in terms of lawsuits.

the_last_name_left said...

This comment from 2 years ago still appears at Larry's site:

"We ARE terrorists - that is, those of us who value liberty and think should strike terror in the hearts of those who would oppress us even more than they already have."

March 13, 2009 8:54:00 AM EDT

the_last_name_left said...

Larry: "....we need another Revolution---and no, I dont mean that symbolically----i mean that LITERALLY-----with real people, real guns and real action to overthrow the government...."V" style.

May 7, 2008 2:32:00 AM EDT

socrates said...

I don't think you copied the full link correctly.

I socratised and found that comment on this entry.

It was written by Messianic Akratist, whatever the hell that name's supposed to represent.

Larry's website is junk for various reasons. Too bad he added so much garbage on the side to make it a bitch to upload. It's bad enough to read through any of the articles. And who the heck uses their own name as a tag? Ha, he even encourages hostility for guest comments. And folks shouldn't think Larry might snap at some point?

Talk about unhinged.

socrates said...

TLNL, please put the links in html. They're not working.

socrates said...

Wow. Nice find.

Goldman Sachs: Bilderberg Target Of $200 Dollar Oil Nears

Larry: we need another Revolution---and no, I dont mean that symbolically----i mean that LITERALLY-----with real people, real guns and real action to overthrow the government...."V" style.

There you have it. Larry advocated violence against the current government. Yet he thinks we are out of line for worrying about him getting involved in violence. To any FBI who are reading this, feel free to send myself and TLNL a modest check for our small part in flushing out a crazy without embarrassing you Hal Turner style. p:>

socrates said...

It's also pretty crummy of Larry to put up consecutive pictures of Andrew Ostroy aging worse than a President does in a few years. The guy's wife was murdered. Larry should take that down. Sure, debate with his points, but don't throw salt on a wound that wasn't his fault and must have devastated him. I took down the sentence Larry wanted me to because I'm not sadistic. It obviously upset him, and it was a writing mistake to place it there so early anyway.

Larry said...

"This comment from 2 years ago still appears at Larry's site:

"We ARE terrorists - that is, those of us who value liberty and think should strike terror in the hearts of those who would oppress us even more than they already have.""

That wasnt me who wrote that. And it's quite obvious that this person was saying "we ARE terrorists" to the ones who are shredding our constitution and hate liberty.

socrates said...

Larry appears to have a form of autism. He's certainly lacking when it comes to reading comprehension skills.

Didn't Loughner have some schitck about being anti-grammar? Larry rarely uses apostrophes. Strange.

the_last_name_left said...

L: "it's quite obvious that this person was saying "we ARE terrorists" to the ones who are shredding our constitution and hate liberty."

And who is it, in your view, that is "shredding the constitution" etc?

The democratically elected Government of the USA.

So, what we have is YOU agreeing that the democratically elected government PROPERLY views YOU as a terrorist.

Well, well.

The only argument you have is that you should be called "freedom fighter"...not terrorist.

You don't evince violence - you called for insurrection with guns and everything. You don't respect democracy - you describe the elected leader as a dictator and the electors as human cattle - "sheeple".

One wonders therefore what it is exactly that holds you back from following Loughner's example.

You were defending the constitution, right? That's why you had to kill people? yeah...I can see it now.....who could ever have thought it possible?

The Grand Inquisitor said...

Hey Socrates.

Hope you get to posting again.

Larry sounds like a crazy nutcase. Legal threats because someone notes your personality is crazy? Larry, please.

socrates said...

Thanks. I haven't cut back on blogging due to Larry. There's someone else who is cyberstalking me. I don't throw that word around loosely either. I would like to know of an FBI agent or any type of law enforcement who sincerely will not tolerate it.

It hurt Larry's feelings what I wrote. I deleted it because I'm not a sadist.

Larry posted what I wrote too, so it's still there anyway.

Maybe I'll do some blogging in the near future.

I'll give Larry credit for one thing. He at least tells someone to their face what it is they posted they have a problem with.

A guy like Brett Kimberlin doesn't have a clue what cyberstalking is which is what he has sued me for. That guy's a public figure. His background should be open to public scrutiny. He could have posted here on any of the threads and argued against anything I wrote. He didn't.

His buddy Larisa Alexandrovna wrote he had been a political prisoner ultimately exonerated for his crimes and won a settlement. That was an outright lie.

the_last_name_left said...

what a POS Kimberlin is.

I have been meaning to do something more on that - having looked into his operation a little more.

I'll hurry it along.

I have a good idea too - found something out that makes a big difference so far as checking some things goes.