Francis Holland Exposes Markos Moulitsas Zuniga

Folks are encouraged to check out his blogs and stories. Mr. Holland is symbolic of what one person can accomplish on the internet when going up against behemoths. I have made some posts here and there at his Truth About Kos blog. Here's an exchange we've had from the last couple days.



socrates:

Dude, I'm a poor white guy. Colour doesn't mean anything. But then again it does. The internet is rigged. Would it be offensive to call those people you mention Uncle Toms? Again, colour means nothing to me, yet it means everything. We can't even just speak the truth without all the double talk. Great point how no way in hell should any "progressive" African-American be affiliated with the NetRoots.

It's not just Kos. The whole fricken net is rigged. People don't even have to be on intel payrolls to serve their purposes. In short, true progressives, intellectuals, and peaceniks are not wanted.

There is this poster at MyLeftWing called Phil. I. Stine. He used to have the username RecFox. He is a producer of Fox News and a close friend of Maryscott O'Connor. Now there is a producer for John Gibson, the show MSOC has gone on, who goes by the name of Angry Rich. That dude referred to Edwards as a whore. I see that Phil. I. Stine has done the same. Why is a Fox producer one of the top posters and close friends to a blog purporting to represent the Left-o-sphere?

Then there is your cyberstalker, KarmaFish, who admits to having gone to My[Right]Wing to counter your "smears and libel." That guy reeks of some kind of operative position. He is quick to make it seem that Jew hate is coming from the left. But all that has originated from the right. You see, good guy Mr. Holland, the blogosphere is a big, fat joke. It doesn't matter what your colour is, your sexual preference, whether you believe in God, etc.. What matters is if you pose a threat to the status quo. That is what is going on with the net.

Francis L. Holland:

I have to say that I agree with you that it's all about whether you pose a threat to the status quo, and most of the whitosphere is there to assure that whites don't become radicalized as they were in the sixties.

Also, there is a very determined effort to see that whites and Blacks don't coalesce around radicalized ideas and actions, simply by segregating the whitosphere from the afrosphere and limiting the discussion.

Socrates, if you're a "poor white guy" then why do you use a Rasta photo as your avatar. That confuses me.

I think the purpose of the big-box blogs must have been like the effect of Wal-Mart: to kill the mom and pop stores that were independent and then homogenize and control the product across the nation and even across continents.

socrates:

I rambled on a bit, so this will take a few posts. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Thanks for the response. Look, me and you have something in common. We both got into blogging. We tried our best.

It is only after people get unfairly banned, that they start to check the tire pressure, look under the hood, etc..

I picked Bob Marley, because I've always loved his words, music, and philosophy. I never meant to trick anyone. As soon as I realised you thought I was African-American, I let you know I wasn't. Not that it matters. Or it does. You know what I mean. If I used a Red Sox player, I'd take Big Papi over Kevin Youkillis or Papelbon. It's not the skin colour that matters to me. The first guy cares about people. The latter two appear to be rednecks. I guess I'm also someone who would be referred to as an "N" lover by racists.

I'm a lefty who studied Social Theory. Go google Erich Fromm, Herbert Marcuse, Frankfurt School of Critical Theory, Paulo Freire, Howard Zinn, Alice Miller, or Frantz Fanon.

I haven't always been poor. Well yes and no. I've never been rich. I've never had much money. I've never gone hungry. My "failing" is that I've always been highly idealistic. So now I am stuck in this toilet bowl of a country doing what I do best. Writing back. The pen is mightier than the sword.

I actually have always been fascinated by social structure. Lately I have come to accept that many of these people are useful idiots. Sure, I still believe there are paid fakes all over the place. Cointelpro is fact. Why wouldn't that type of thing be going on with the internet in some modern incarnation?

But is Maryscott O'Connor an agent? Maybe a political operative, but no spy type. Is she the worst thing to ever happen to the left on the net? Yes. She and Kos and all the Kos offshoots along with other fake progressives have been the worst thing to happen with the internet.

Kos could definitely be a CIA asset. I think he is. We have every right to believe so. When I wrote my spiels at DKos, MyLeftWing, and Democratic Underground, all I got were ad hominem attacks. Anyone who uncovers anything through cybersleuthing is attacked. It's happened to you, me, DaveFromQueens, and others.

A professor once told me that one can go to the Dominican Republic and find people speaking with traces of Irish accents. That's because the British used to send Irish slaves there.

You were right about Hillary being better than Obama, by the way.

Okay, I think you nailed it with your Walmart analogy. Yes, we are the Mom and Pop stores. I started at Huffington in 2005 {different username}, before it was big. You were at DKos. There were all these other big places.

As the months turned into years, and the outspoken were banished from the big places, the deletions and hidden comments grew. The middle took over the left. The left were told to take a hike.

All the disinfo and useful idiots have left is to refer to us as conspiracy theorists. It doesn't matter what we bring to the table for truth. There will be scripts written to paint any individual a certain way. I do not for one second believe that KarmaFish posts for free. But point these kinds of things out, and all of a sudden someone like me is painted as calling everyone cointelpro. That's not what I do. I despise the tinfoil as much as anyone.

{contd.}


People are being shamed. No one will speak out on the big blogs. Hey, even if they don't feel shame, they will be ignored and banned anyway... Or goaded into any kind of angry response to justify a banning. The fake progressives can break any rule. The gadflies must walk on eggshells to survive.

I am a peacenik vegetarian. I believe the quickest solution to our problems would be to cut the military-industrial complex by 80%. Such an obvious solution never gets discussed, because a sophisticated right woos left script has been generated to shut out the true left.

Peace and equality is where it's always been at. Unfortunately, such ideals have become commodified. The tv is obviously worthless. The internet has been some kind of venting mechanism. But when people like ourselves vented too well, the decision was made to shut us up.

They know they can't shut us up totally, because we can be very clever fockers. So they smear us. Then ironically, they label us as the smearers and stalkers.

We are just nice dudes who wanted to be heard in what is astroturfed as being a democracy. Then when we found out the thing has been rigged, we documented it. You are not the only person who has been cybersmeared. The same thing happened to me. I guess the biggest thing we have in common has been our outing of fake progressives.

There's nothing more discouraging to the useful idiots than to have the truth spelled out for them. They would rather continue with their cognitive dissonance than to consider the accumulated facts, or the ideas that spring from free and critical thinkers.

Maybe a new major forum could be started. We'd need some money to get it done. Operatives are all over the internet perverting democratic processes. Whether they are political operatives or from the various intelligence branches of the military, or if they are simply right wing trolls, who knows? It would take work to simply explain to folks how rigged the net is.

That can be done. Right now I can only say let the reader decide. The bad guys are portraying us as trolls and mentally unbalanced or on payrolls. They know we are marginalised on blogspots. But we do have the written word. We are smarter than them. Most importantly, we have the truth.

Yeah, funny how Kos can't explain the time discepancy with the CIA, about the 2001-2003 timeline. It's bad enough that he is an admirer of that organisation. When I did the LetTheSunShine thing, the responses were all making fun of me as tinfoil. Just ad hominems.

I've always been antiwar and liberal. Massachusetts is the only state which voted for McGovern over Nixon. We are the state where the first African-American Regiment formed to fight in the Civil War. Sure, the busing was a bad time. That's actually a pretty good issue to get into. My thinking is, why aren't the schools equal to begin with? Why should anyone have to leave their neighbourhood to get a better education? On the other hand, I would be pro-busing as a patchwork solution. Ugh. There's something in this world called complexity. There are no high powered conversations going on anywhere on the "progressive" blogs.

I wouldn't mind being an internet activist. That's actually what's needed. We need a million groovy people like ourselves to find each other, along with a good platform to exchange information and ideas. We should figure out how to break up the blogospheric status quo.

Francis L. Holland:

Socrates, I don't think we need one good platform but rather thousands of good platforms, interlinked but independent, so that no one person or small group of people have the power to shut it down.

Effectively, that's what the afrosphere is. Although dozens or even hundreds of government agents can try to buy it, corrupt it or coopt it, yet no one can compel any individual to say anything s/he doesn't want to say, or refrain from saying it, except by torture.

One of the things that destroyed the Black Panther Party is that it became so thoroughly infiltrated with Governnment spies and agent provocateurs that no member could fully trust any other member anymore.

Another thing that destroyed the BPP was that it was entirely overt, and so when the authorities wanted to shut it down, they knew where all of the pressure points were.

I think the anonymity of the whitosphere has a different purpose. It allows people who would be incredible if identified to seem credible when they are anonymous.

....

I read the comments to your letthesunshine diary and it was obvious that anyone with a brain knew better than to support you because opposing MAMZ is against the rules, and everyone who was opposing you was doing so without ever challenging the substance of what you had said.

They basically all point at you and laugh simultaneously in the hopes that people who don't know will think you're incredible or incredibly dangerous.

Any blog built around maintaining the credibility of a two-year CIA agent trainee in the American Left is a blog that might as well be run directly out of CIA headquarters. Maybe it is.

socrates:

There's a Stephen King movie called The Dead Zone. Spoiler Warning. The lead character is a psychic played by Christopher Walken. He knows that a politician is destined to become a Hitler type President. He decides to take the man out. But at the last moment, the politician grabs a baby and shields himself from the would be assassin.

The beauty of this was that the man's political aspirations were ruined, and the psychic didn't have to commit the crime.

We are peaceniks. We are what used to be the norm. The role of the operatives is to maintain the status quo. They definitely own the Walmarts. Hence, I agree with you on the need for tons of smaller sites in which we find ways to have our messages and stories heard. We do so through something I refer to as the reverse-troll. Basically, we get the Kos-type sycophants to hold up the babies in self-defense.

Daily Kos does something called card stacking. By hiding comments and banning anyone who disagrees, the authoritarian types attempt to astroturf themselves as being the grown ups and the free thinkers as disruptive trolls.

As soon as they went to zero tolerance for dissent within the blog, they were doomed to collapse under the weight of their our hypocrisy. Fool me once, twice, that kind of strategy can only go so far. By ganging up on yourself, the thing backfired. The bullying became transparent. No progressive would ever support the CIA.

Kos was busted for those payola type schemes. He then did the internet version of jumping the shark by supporting the CIA. I don't think he ever imagined that his interview with the Commonwealth Club would take on a life of its own.

Instead of stripping the old paint, new coats of lies were packed on the rotted wood. Operatives like KarmaFish were sent to attack you, to in fact cyberstalk, in outrageous attempts to portray yourself as an out of control conspiracy theorist. MSOC just didn't have the mental balance and inner fortitude to do the right thing.

A bunch of times during my brief stay at MLW, I'd ask the "normal" people to explain how applying to the CIA in 2001 for a six month interview was resolved in 2003. If Kos was that clever, he would have said he applied in 2001 and didn't hear back from them until approximately six months before joining the Dean campaign. Actually, I don't think there was any way for him to fix what he blurted out. By phrasing it as he did in reference to the Dean campaign, he admitted that he was in close contact with the CIA, while running a "progressive" blog. It makes one wonder about people like Larry Johnson and many others like Larisa Alexandrovna who have had a very warped influence on the zeitgeist.

Kos basically had no way to fudge his way out of what he himself declared, once the genie was out of the bottle. He has gone with the same strategy he did when the Armstrong payola scandal emerged. Remember the memo he sent out to the Townhouse blogosphere asking them to starve the oxygen out of that story? Since you were so persistent and resourceful, KarmaFish and others were given their assignments to troll you. I've experienced the same kind of thing since also outing various right woos left, disinfo fakes. One needn't even prove that Kos is in the CIA, for the indisputable truth remains that he called them a liberal institution while downplaying their culpability in historic crimes against humanity.

When guys like us mess up, we admit it. We consider mea culpas and retractions. The attacks on you have always consisted on trivial points or ad hominems. So perhaps no one called you the "N" word at Daily Kos. I don't know. But I certainly read where someone called you a monkey. How does an operative like KarmaFish think he is proving his cybersmears, when anyone can see that you were verbally abused in a racist manner at Daily Kos?

Internet Fakes Creating Outrage At Jewish People

Is Michael Rivero sincere in his insanity, or is he paid to provoke divide and conquer and violence? How can folks not see that fakes are all over the internet spreading propaganda? Sure there is anti-semitism. There is also racism, sexism, homophobia, and lots of bad stuff. But I'm talking about a specific form of fakery. I'm talking about Michael Rivero, Hal Turner, and Jeff Rense. I'm talking about people posting on "lefty" blogs who speak of "Jew boys" like Virgil at Progressive Independent. I'm talking about some loser at Rivero's What Really Happened shitdive, who equates this recent murder at the Holocaust Museum to cointelpro. The person even had the gall to link to a fine website named Third World Traveler, which is an authentic, progressive domain. I'm talking about an anti-semite named Mattes who spreads disinformation all over soapblox {DKos} blogs while linking directly to Michael Rivero.

These are the Palestinians' worst enemies. I found a Michael Rivero podcast. He's saying this whole thing smells fishy. That the elderly gunman was shooting at the walls to garner attention and not to maim anyone, as if he murdered the security guard in self-defense. I've been googling a bit. I could write fifty pages on this. I could copy and paste tons of rubbish from right wingers posing as lefties posing as holocaust deniers and Jew haters. Rivero also says that Israel suckered the U.S. into attacking Iraq.

The situation is bad in the Middle East. The Palestinians are getting a raw deal. But the more these types spread their propaganda, and the more shallow people buy it up that anti-semitism is growing on the left, the more right of center politicians like Obama do what ever they want to help out the rich and continue pumping money into the military industrial complex.

I don't have the time anymore to keep blogging hours on end for free. The same bull the few of us have tried to explain so many times before is being reproduced over and over again. The guy I mentioned at Tinoire's Progressive Independent? I now see him pimping for Alex Jones. Now why would Alex Jones, as right wing as they come, be promoted at a so-called progressive website? He wouldn't be, if the place was for real. That forum has been a sponsor for Michael Rivero. Rivero sponsors Jones, Curtis Maynard, Willis Carto and all various types of propagandists and/or vice versa.

I'm gonna email the_last_name_left and let him know I've made this post. He was telling me about this story. The irony is that it is fueling the wingnuts and their drive to create useful idiots and provoke mayhem. You wouldn't believe how Rivero turns it around. He's asking who benefits. Others are posting that this was a hoax and a false flag event. This is lunacy. These are not progressives. These are paid fakes who make money to pervert democratic processes on the internet. It's all about right woos left and tinfoil by association. And the worst part of all is that the two major American forums, Democratic Underground and Daily Kos, have been proven to be rigged.

We have found out that Hal Turner has had FBI ties. We do know about cointelpro, so that is very suspicious. Now what about Rivero? Could he be a member of the Mossad? Think about it. That's the Israeli equivalent of the CIA. Let's take what Rivero has just said in his podcast- about asking who benefits from this horrific murder and turn the tables on the Rivero, Carto, Maynard, and Rense types. It does benefit the Israeli's in favour of asymetrical warfare. So why is Rivero spreading the tinfoil extra thick? Why are these people associated with holocaust deniers? Why are any "lefties" linking to Rivero? Who does it benefit to have outrageous tinfoil spread about "the Jooos" controlling the world? Those in favour of the status quo is who would promote such hogwash. Why does Michael Rivero hate the Palestinians? Why does he hate Jewish people? Does he love the Israeli and American militaries so much to justify acting the buffoon role? It appears so. Does he hate the left? Yes he does. Here's the creep's podcast, where one can listen in and see that Michael Rivero is some kind of monster.

http://podcast.gcnlive.com/podcast//what_really/061009.mp3

On the Historic Troll Donkeytale and Other Fakes

I get taken in at first, because I am a good guy, sincere, and honest. Insidious individuals play off of my innocence. When the worst case scenarios arrive for them, such as that I figure out what is up, they then resort to further cheating. This has happened time and time again, since I became an amateur internet cybersleuth a few years back.

There are only so many explanations for when liars lie.

*** They are paid to pervert democratic processes on the internet.

*** They are loser trolls who could care less about who they hurt. In short, they are sadistic useful idiots.

Without paystubs as actual proof, dedicated trollbusters are forced to always mention the second possibility. It's not that one doesn't feel in one's gut, that someone is paid to post. It's that one needs to put malice to the side at all times, and explain whether one's findings are based on proof or opinion. This is why the adage "let the reader decide" holds ultimate sway.



One needs to understand the concept of controlled, oppositional scripts. One must get a feel for what the trolls, paid or otherwise, are thinking. This is not biological science. There is a reason C. Wright Mills spoke of a sociological imagination.

I've been getting a sinking feeling in my gut, as I've seen one concern troll after another treat me like dirt. There was supersoling. He attacked me out of nowhere months back and ensured that the meme of myself as a shit stirrer would germinate. Then recently, Vox Humana, FairLeft, and DavidByron all failed in treating the data in an objective manner. I will leave FairLeft to the side, because I find his writing style virtually unreadable. The other two are also very cumbersome. But unlike FairLeft, they do have solid personalities. Mattes and LastHorseMan? No, they do not seem to have a core personality. There is no there, there.

Vox and Byron have utterly failed to interact with the most basic of proof, that Jack had outed himself. They have failed to take even a quick look at the emails between us, that Jack did not include. Not only has JSR cheated by lying about me being into phishing, similar to how Lauren S. {MajorFlaw?} has posted that I harvest ip addresses, he left out the key ingredients that explain why I thought he had stolen a Hofstra student's identity. Folks can check that out here.

Donkeytale has been my biggest supporter. No one else has fought for my dignity. Donkeytale is a genius. I'll give him credit for that. He appears to definitely have studied and utilised propaganda manuals. For a historic troll to pay dividends, there must be some level of credibility. The first negatives I read about him were that he stalked female bloggers, used sock puppets, and was against DFQ's trollbusting. I found zero proof that he stalked any bloggers. Acting like a troll or nuisance on messageboards is not illegal, if it stays within the realm of anonymous usernames and on the net. It was also apparent that Jack had made up lies, or they were gift-wrapped to him in order to create the illusion that noom, donkeytale, shadowthief, and Eric S. were all the same person and worthy of banishment. Finally, while donkeytale did not show much respect for DFQ's later work, he did fight for his right to publish such findings and ideas.

Yet, over the last few months, things started to not add up concerning the historic troll. He coined sock rat as my nickname. Despite telling him I did not like that name, despite telling him how I have been victimised by an elaborate, cybersmear script concerning the use of sock puppetry, despite the fact that I stood up for him, he has utterly failed to return the good will I have shown him. He continues to call me sock rat. The other day he referred to an internet friend, may41970, as sock rat. He stood up for HowardX and supersoling, despite the fact that both of them treated me like dirt.

Is Donkeytale a Political Operative or Spook?

That is for the reader to decide. I finally got to read some posts of his, where he outright lied. At DFQ, I started to understand, that he is a right-center Democrat. That in itself does not mean someone is a troll. Heck, Pinche Tejano supporting Ron Paul and Phil Gramm does not supply the necessary conditions to call him a troll either. The troll designation is applied, when insidious lies are uncovered. I sincerely now believe that donkeytale is a right woos left troll, same as Pinche Tejano, same as the vast majority of posters to be found at FSZ and PFF. I believe most of these people are fakes.

Desperation Uncalled For on Left

Dont borrow on credit cards is my advice. I stopped using mine even though I go hungry in the dorm once in a while....

I plan to take you up on all, except someday I would want to have children. But I know I need to make some money and have health insurance first....

My dad got laid off his job a few years ago and has since started his own business. Its been hard, but he is starting to make almost as much money as he did when laid off---and he is a lot happier now. He has advised me to stay away from corporate life....

I was born and raised in Wisconsin....

My dad tells me he [Clinton] reopened the federal student loan program so I could afford to go to collede....

I was born in the 80s....

I have been studying community blogs and I have pretty solid evidence. A respected member can say something and receive a bundle of 4s, while a newcomer can say virtually the same thing and be troll rated off. This is why I never have posted on Daily Kos....

I am not a troll. I am also not a robot. I am a student. I am learning....

No, he is a liar. Does he lie all the time or often? I don't think so. Perhaps he wasn't lying when he wrote the following.

Lets see now, I have many different names from which to choose, after all, I invented sock puppetry with brinnainne at BMT simultaneously to inventing role playing in the blogosphere...

It is quite bizarre, imho, how certain usernames like donkeytale and supersoling are always finding themselves in the thick of the meta. Both, like Curmudgette, love to astroturf themselves as experts on such yet never seem to provide anything concrete.

Then there is also the concept of the concern troll.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll

1. In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with "concerns". The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally. Concern trolls who use fake identities are sometimes known as sockpuppets.

2.A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.

3. A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.

My Conclusions

Internet right woos left is fact. We know this through looking at examples such as Alex Jones, Willis Carto, Jeff Rense, and Michael Rivero. That concern trolls exist is a fact. Whether they are paid or not is the million dollar question.

Certain posters such as Blues, Lasthorseman, and Mattes appear to be caricatures representing right woos left's infiltration into the progressive blogosphere. Concern trolls such as KarmaFish attempt to reinforce the fallacy that tinfoil and anti-semitism is derived from the left, and he uses examples such as with the above usernames as his proof.

Marisacat appears to be for real. Where I think she has made a mistake, or perhaps not, is in thinking Shadowthief is from California. There are things called tor and proxies, in which usernames can spoof their location. There are tors that one can do a whois on and it will lead them to academic institutions. I do not believe that shadowthief is an educational administrator with too much time on his hands.

Concern trolls do like to bend gender roles and role play. They do like to spin their disinfo around the concept of sock puppetry and convolution. There are things like limited hangouts. Posters such as supersoling, Vox Humana, David Byron, Revisionist, Yetimonk, and FairLeft are examples of posters who spin themselves as having good ideas to offer concerning "meta," but what they present leads to nowhere.

I believe that Hidden Comment/wormwood {and another hard to remember name at DKos- a centrist at that} is also Greenwood and is not a female.

I think that DeeDogg is FeloniousMonk. I think that Pinche Tejano is friends with the UGOGs in real life along with JSR. I believe that FSZ is a controlled opposition to DKos. I believe their plausible deniability is that they are nasty meanies rather than being part and parcel of some political operative or psychological operation network.

I do think a few people are legit. Yet, the convolution is spun so thick, that it is very difficult to get to the bottom of things. My recommendation to the good readers and any sincere posters is to stay clear of all these forums. You can't beat cheaters, when you are caged into their pigsties. They get away with their bullshit through the use of the concern trolls. They do want some real people around. They do realise their racket is harder to obscure, if it is just themselves spinning tales.

These people believe that there is a need for a balance in the world, that it is a jungle, and that the United States is the moral compass.

Now that I see that donkeytale is ultimately one of them, there is no point in me trying to counteract any of this utter bullshit on their own turf. I am a real person. My story is organic. I also do not willingly make false statements. I am pretty much done here. I am going to take action, but it is going to take place away from the manipulative forces and through proper legal channels.

In short, I have been the wrong person to fuck with. A few of us are working together behind the scenes. Most of the responsibility lies on my shoulders to fight for my integrity and dignity. I agree with may41970 that insidious forces have been trying to drive me to suicide and confusion. At times they have succeeded. Yet, this is not about individual battles. This is not about going around in circles with sadistic people and their various usernames. I will have my day, and it will come through the proper channels such as with courts and the media. I do not use sock puppets. I have always explained who I am, and where I have been. No one has had any right to insinuate that I am a pedophile, stalker, or anything else like that.

Cut the military by 80%. Prosecute the war criminals. Provide every citizen with equal education, housing, food, work, and health care. Create a Palestinian homeland side by side in peace with Israel. It is time for authentic progressive ideals centered around social and environmental justice to come to fruition. I'm done fighting these assholes on their own turf. Yet, I am not done fighting. I and others will win this ideological war. The internet is rigged. You know it.

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