This blog is dedicated to the memory of David Weintraub, who took on insidious astroturfers and won.

Thursday, December 24, 2009

Ted Gunderson and Internet Cointelpro

One case of internet cointelpro has been proven real beyond a shadow of a doubt through recently uncovered documents pertaining to the Hal Turner story. Nonetheless, it doesn't take a rocket science degree to realise this has been going on for years all over this stinking cesspool called the blogosphere. I believe Larry Johnson of No Quarters has been running a similar scam to Turner's. Larry is ex-CIA. He was at the forefront of putting out propaganda concerning Obama, e.g. the birther hoax, Michelle using the "whitey" phrase, crap like that. My theory is that Johnson, like Turner, has been getting paid to flush out the crazies while creating limited hangouts.

Ted Gunderson has been another obvious internet fake. This entry is kind of painful to put together. The more one searches for the essence of the disinfo octopus, the crazier it gets. Not only is there a dearth of credible sources, the good ones are easily obfuscated by a mountain of deliberately, planted rubbish. Yet, I'll try my best. This will be somewhat of a stream of consciousness as I put together links, screenshots, and even a run through memory lane in regards to the McMartin Preschool hysteria.

Ted Gunderson used to be an FBI Special Agent in charge of 700 employees and a $22.5 million budget. Here's his resume.




For those unaware of cointelpro, here are a few excerpts from Brian Glick's War At Home.


Government harassment of U.S. political activists clearly exists today, violating our fundamental democratic rights and creating a climate of fear and distrust which undermines our efforts to challenge official policy. Similar attacks on social justice movements came to light during the 1960s. Only years later did we learn that these had been merely the visible tip of an iceberg. Largely hidden at the time was a vast government program to neutralize domestic political opposition through "covert action" (political repression carried out secretly or under the guise of legitimate law enforcement).

The 1960s program, coordinated by the FBI under the code name "COINTELPRO," was exposed in the 1970s and supposedly stopped. But covert operations against domestic dissidents did not end. They have persisted and become an integral part of government activity. ...

Domestic Covert Action Did Not End in the 1970s
... While domestic covert operations were scaled down once the 1960s upsurge had subsided (thanks in part to the success of COINTELPRO), they did not stop. In its April 27, 1971 directives disbanding COINTELPRO, the FBI provided for future covert action to continue "with tight procedures to ensure absolute security." ...


Here's the thing about Teddy. He has gravitas from his resume. As an old man, he has the plausible deniability of being internet illiterate. His chief critics have zero credibility. They include crazies such as Stew Webb, Barbara Hartwell, Kate JoAnne Dixon, and Virginia McCullough. His apparent prime ally happens to be Ken Adachi of the completely ludicrous website named Educate-yourself.org. The spin can be that a respected, retired, FBI man has been unduly smeared by obvious disinfo dispensers and insidiously used by others falsely promoting him as their associate.

One of the biggest pieces of "evidence" used to discredit Teddy has come from his old website now only available through archive.org. Check out below the third and fourth line in the second paragraph.



Underground alien-controlled facilities?

I heard through the grapevine that Ted had nothing to do with that website, that he is indeed somewhat computer illiterate. There's that plausible deniability again. To be honest, I can't find anything that ties Ted to the crazy notion that aliens exist and are involved in a global conspiracy.

People can easily check out what Gunderson got into after "leaving" the FBI. He became an investigator. He worked for the green beret doctor found guilty of killing his family, the one who spinned it as being the work of some Charles Manson type cult. I remember reading Fatal Vision. Let me put it this way. I'd believe OJ Simpson was innocent before ever considering Jeffrey MacDonald was.

Teddy Gunderson pimped the idea that MacDonald was wrongly accused. This was the start of Ted's post-FBI cottage industry. He basically believes we are under the control of a satanic illuminati.

Is Ted Gunderson for real? We now know Hal Turner has been putting on an act for years as an agent provocateur. The million dollar question is whether Ted Gunderson has been in the thick of a major psychological operation, or if he is a real life version of Colonel Kurtz.



The analogy would be that perhaps Gunderson was a good man who at some point went off the deep end into insanity. I'm not saying Gunderson has ever been involved in murder.

The problem with that is Gunderson can be directly tied to the Willis Carto network of right woos left. Perhaps his website was in the hands of folks trying to discredit him.




Here are the links that were up on his website.



Here is the beginning of one story TedGunderson.com published. It was taken from The American Free Press, a Willis Carto publication.



Nonetheless, it is moot whether or not insidious individuals infiltrated TedGunderson.com. Gunderson can be directly tied to Willis Carto and his anti-semitic disinformation network. Even if Gunderson can feign ignorance about the website that was put out in his name, he probably won't deny having been in attendence at the 2006 American Free Press/Barnes Review Conference titled Authentic History And The First Amendment.



From TedGunderson.com, one can see that he spoke at one of the events, though I'm not sure during which year.



(some related links for those interested:

Willis Carto Reaches Out to More Extreme Anti-Semites

SCANNED DOCUMENTS PERTAINING TO ROBERT WELCH and BIRCH SOCIETY and EXTREME RIGHT)


I can't buy that Ted Gunderson has been anything other than part and parcel of a convoluted, controlled, oppositional script. I believe he became the perfect candidate to give credibility to a satanic psychological operation that swept our nation and resulted in innocent people going to prison. Here's a clip of Ted's appearance on the Geraldo Rivero Show. One thing I noticed is how he would roll his eyes back and forth. I am no body sign expert, but my guess is those were tells showing he was well aware of being full of it.



Now before anyone jumps the gun and says so what if Ted became part of the Patriot Movement and was at a Willis Carto sponsored event. They may say I am dabbling in McCarthyite smears by association. They could say the alien thing was planted to make him look extra kooky. Well, here's another youtube video the good readers might want to view. Here Ted Gunderson was working side by side with alleged MK ULTRA victims Barbara Hartwell and Brice Taylor. The other dude sitting next to Ted is an alleged ex-operative named Chip Tatum.





Oh yeah, Ted Gunderson is soooo believable. Not!!!!!


Run For The Hills. It's Bob Hope!!!

Brice Taylor says she was owned by Bob Hope. Oh my fricken God. Give me a break.





You know, I loves me some crazies as much as the next guy, and this Brice lady is kind of cute, but that's just a bit too nutty for my taste.

(somewhat related link: Ted Gunderson says Sonny Bono assassinated by hitmen and not trees)



The McMartin Preschool Tragedy

I'm actually burnt out at this point and would simply like to add some links concerning the McMartin story along with some related links. Folks are encouraged to check it out for themselves. The first link will take folks to a thread started by Jackie McGauley. She's a parent of one of the children alleged to have been abused. She used to live with Gunderson. Hmmm. Now she apparently despises the man. Curiously enough, she owns the rights to the archaeological dig report she claims proves there were underground tunnels.

The McMartin Preschool and Ted Gunderson

The "Ritual Abuse" Panic

The Ritual Sex Abuse Hoax by Debbie Nathan

Lost years of 'satanic panic' children

McMartin Preschool accuser recants

Woman who falsely accused her father of rape reveals 'doctors hijacked my mind'

29 comments:

fischerfinder said...

"curiously enough"? Maybe I own it because I commissioned the report and the entire project. gunderson was there-like a leech on a vein, but he was NEVER HIRED OR INVOLVED IN ANY OFFICIAL CAPACITY-AT ALL. in my case.
I hate him because he embezzled $30,000 form me and my chidren. And now he continues to travel around the country conning and bilking people.
See his schlock website 1-free-dvd.com put on the web by Clarence Malcolm, convicted of counterfeiting $100 blls in Bellflower, CA and now on the lam for other crimminal charges. tedlgunderson.com is no longer on line because THAT webmaster is in prson for molesting young boys.
The people who are ted's detractors are so because they KNOW him and follow his trail of deceit and cons. We don't go out of our way to follow this crook, people come to us. I'll never see my money again but he continues to steal form victims and little old ladies. For documentation to poove this contact me. Jacque417@aol.com.
Thanks!

socrates said...

Hi Jackie McGaulvey,

Thanks for posting.

Do you have proof for your claims? I don't think you're a willing liar. Clarence Malcolm is on the run for sexually abusing children? That's a serious charge.

Do you know if a Christopher Link Jones was also a webmaster for Ted Gunderson? And if so, is he the same guy who infiltrated Bohemian Grove and became associated with Alex Jones?

What about Debbie Nathan? You must be aware of her essay titled, "McMartin Preschool Tunnel Claims: Evidence of a Hoax." It is reposted on my new blog entry. She says she has various proof, police reports etc.. She says in 1984 you reported to the police that your daughter had been abused by your ex-boyfriend, a reporter for The Daily Breeze. She says you also complained to the police in 1985 that she was molested by a therapist at the Richstone Center.

Nathan also wrote that in 1985 when an initial dig was taking place, a small map was found by investigators with a picture of the school along with two X's pointing to tortoise shells. Any comment?

I see elsewhere that you don't buy into the satanic cult angle brought forth by Gunderson and others. That is to your credit. But why don't you just release the archaeological dig report? Are you holding out to make money off of it? Why wait? What's the point of holding off any longer?

Are you denying that there was a satanic panic that spread across America and into Europe? How do you feel about other high profile cases which revolved around wild claims of satanic ritual abuse and international pedophile rings? Do you think any innocent people went to jail?

Do you ever consider that you may be wrong? Those of us who believe the McMartin Preschool and other cases were hoaxes do not blame the parents or every cop, social worker, etc. who was involved. Maybe we are upset at those who cannot admit that the crazed panic led to innocent people going to jail. I personally believe that Gunderson as an accomplished FBI man during the cointelpro era was put forward to give the satanic cult meme gravitas. I believe it has been used to cover up provable big conspiracies, for example, those revolving around the Promis software and the Cabazon murders. I believe convolution has been deliberately spread on the internet to muddy the waters.

What's up with those Brice Taylor and Barbara Hartwell women? I see Brice's real name is Sue Ford. Does anyone know who her family were? Or how her crazy story got started? Gunderson is fully discredited in my book by having gone into their corner. I couldn't care less if Hartwell now purports to hate him. One can also link Gunderson directly to holocaust revisionists and other right woos left propaganda.

We had a case similar to yours in Massachusetts called Fells Acres. It had the same kind of result with innocent people going to jail. Nothing personal, but I don't believe there was any tunnel at the McMartin Preschool. It looks like it was either an area where plumbing was put in, or where waste areas were created. Why are you holding onto the report? If you really wanted to show proof that hundreds of children were abused in satanic rituals at McMartin, surely you would publish the whole report. If noone has paid you money by now, what makes you think someone ever will?

socrates said...

Sorry for spelling your last name wrong, Ms. McGauley.

socrates said...

Hmmm Jackie. I'm doing some googling. Is it true you wrote the following?

I got ALL of the material on Michael Aquino and Anton Lavey from Ivan Sharpe of the San Francisco Chronicle.... Ted met Sue Ford aka Brice Taylor, Noreen Gosch and many others, through me.

If that's true, what the hell were you doing back then? What possible explanation is there for you to have been in contact with Brice Taylor? Your actions led to ruined lives. And now you continue to push your tunnel hoax. You ought to be ashamed.

You appear to keep posting that Judy Johnson had no mental illness. You don't pass the stink test.

Notes from an Interview with Judy Johnson

Ray picked his rt. pointer finger. It bled. Ray put it in the goat's anus... Billy had to drink the babies [sic] blood. Ray wanted Billy's spit.... She chopped up animals and said she would come in the night and take away. She pushed his stomach and threw him against the wall. He has extreme fear regarding Babs. Also something awful would come in the window. Ray made small babies cry. Billy was hurt by a lion. An elephant payed with the lion, squirted H20. Then the lion didn't move. Billy was on his back. Ray let him pull the lion's tail. The lion roared but didn’t' move. Betty was there, and other people. One lady took pictures.
(continued)

socrates said...

McMartin Preschool Trials: 1987-90 - Mother Calls In The Police, Parents Demand Action, Rewarded For "right" Answers, Paranoid Schizophrenic

Innocent people went to jail. You were in the thick of that happening. Judy Johnson was a paranoid schizophrenic. What's your excuse? Have you no shame?

McMartin Preschool Trials: 1987-90 - Paranoid Schizophrenic

In December 1986, Judy Johnson died of alcohol poisoning. Only then was it revealed that she had been a paranoid schizophrenic. In January 1997, defense attorneys learned that for 10 months prosecutor Lael Rubin and her assistants had not divulged that Johnson had accused the defendants of being witches, and had insisted to investigators that her son had been forced to drink blood from the chopped-open head of a baby and had been molested by a member of the Los Angeles Board of Education. Johnson's bizarre complaints continued from her first report of sexual abuse against her son in May 1983 to March 6, 1985, when it took the help of police to have her committed to a hospital for psychiatric examination. In the end, neither jury in either trial was told of Johnson's emotional problems.

The first trial began on July 13, 1987. Prosecution witnesses included children who testified to playing "naked movie star" games and seeing cats mutilated, as well as a professional "jailhouse snitch" and career criminal put in Ray Buckey's cell to obtain "corroborative" testimony. To show that Buckey was a pedophile, the prosecution provided evidence that he read Playboy and hadn't had any underwear on when he was arrested.

In the circus atmosphere of the courtroom, some child prosecution witnesses refused to testify, causing the judge to dismiss some of the charges. In fact, while the prosecution had assembled charges involving 41 children, it eventually concentrated on only 13—and by February 1989 only 5 had testified. One, a boy now aged 11, said he once saw Ray Buckey kill a horse; however, as defense attorney Dean Gits pressed for details, repeatedly replied, "I don't know."


Much more is at those links. The history books will contain the truth about Jackie McGauley and her part in one of the most sadistic hoaxes ever created.

socrates said...

Here's some more high weirdness associated with Jackie McGauley aka fischerfinder.

She's made two posts on blogspot, from what I can see.

Post #1 she showed up at the Bobby Fischer Chess Blog on February 21, 2009.

Does anyone know how/why Fischer came out of hiding?
He was living in a small apartment in Los Angeles (in a neighborhood just behind Johnny's Coffee Shop on WIlshire) under an alias.
I remember he was using "James" for his last name. I'd have to look up the file to get the details.

I'd start a new topic on this but I can't figure out how.....



Then she showed up on a conspiracy website on July 18th, 2009. It concerned an article written by an Alex Constantine. He rambled on with his accusations that Michael Jackson was guilty of pedophilia. He went on to attack a writer who defended Michael in GQ Magazine. Her name is Mary A. Fischer. Hmmm. He said she was following a script out of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation.

It's getting late here, so I don't have much left in me for tonight. Constantine is saying that a Dr. Underwager was the first chairman of the FMFS, and that he was a former NAMBLA official. This story is very complex. I don't have all the answers but am trying to figure it out. Let me quote a bit from him.

link

In the past, she had written articles discrediting the McMartin Preschool sex abuse allegations... her facts and reasoning were deliberately skewed, following a script written by members of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation... a CIA/pedophile front that concocts bogus psychological and legal arguments to discredit victims of mind control, RA and organized pedophilia.... Mary Fischer was one of a small circle of "journalists," all connected by the FMSF, who wrote articles claiming that the McMartin children had "false memories." .... The public doesn't comprehend what really went on at the school because the disinformation spun by Ms. Fischer and another media liar who "reported" on the McMartin case, Debbie Nathan (who went on to work for NAMBLA's Dr. Underwager), among others, was widely disseminated. They convinced the public that ritual abuse, a cover for mind control operations, was a figment of young fertile imaginations and therapist coercion - a "witch hunt."

Then Jackie McGauley showed up to make the first post in the comments.

Bravo, Alex.
Another great article.
Hope all is well with you.

Jackie McGauley



The truth will win out. One thing I notice with Constantine's article is that he supplies no proof for his claims. I noticed Underwager looked a bit dodgy when I first got into this subject recently. That's why I've tried to not link to him or anyone close to being dubious. One thing that needs to be done is fact checking. It's late. I need shut-eye. But I will see this through to the end to the best of my abilities. Debbie Nathan seems very legit. Constantine, like many others still spinning the McMartin hoax as real, smells like a desperate, disinfo rat.

the_last_name_left said...

Well, let's hope Gunderson successfully discredits Carto and AFP et al.

:)

Shouldn't be difficult? Give them a typewriter......

socrates said...

I chased off Jackie. I just couldn't stomach kissing her ass to get some answers. I've seen her at the Randi forum just up and leave instead of answering simple questions. Plus, the more I googled, the worse it looks for her.

All those innocent people in jail over a hysteria mostly pushed by this woman and Gunderson. Sure there were others at fault too, like dumbass social workers and prosecutors.

The bull keeps getting shoveled decades later. I sincerely believe psyops are being cast upon the American people. Maybe the buggers think the internet has no true address, thus no laws are being broken.

Strasngely enough, Michael Aquino of the Temple of Set, a fricken satanist, was studying and writing about psychological operations during his military career.

What other conclusion can one come to than that the satanic panic was produced as a black operation? Yes, there's child abuse. Yes, there are pedophile rings. But no, we don't have the right numbers or perspective. What we have are websites like Rigorous Intuition pushing this crap, an ex-FBI bigwig pushing this crap, this mom pushing this crap. It all makes my blood boil. It's all a major limited hangout to cover up the real conspiracies.

That's a funny one, TLNL, about Gunderson ruining the reputation of Carto and his cronies. I was thinking the other way around. Like who is discredited worse between Rivero and Alex Jones. Or did the chicken or egg come first. Ha! Thanks for the post. It all comes out in the wash.

Anonymous said...

I lost track of this and didn't read the comments until I got a blog alert today.

Geraldo had Bobby Fischer's address and hired gunderson to get him on film. gunderson contracted a surveillance guy who gave up. Don't know how much Geraldo paid gunderson,
I ended up helping. I had a van (later stolen) and a video camera.
The results were shown on Geraldo's short lived show Now It Can Be Told.
I have the raw tapes if you need proof
fischerfinder-aka JM

Anonymous said...

I have a contract with the Archaeologist proving that I paid for and own the tunnel report.
JM

Anonymous said...

Hi Jackie McGaulvey,

Thanks for posting.

Do you have proof for your claims? I don't think you're a willing liar. Clarence Malcolm is on the run for sexually abusing children? That's a serious charge.

NO-HE IS ON THE RUN (WARRANT) FOR NOT APPEARING FOR A TRAFFIC TICKET. MALCOLM WAS PICKED UP AND JAILED. JOHN DECAMP BAILED HIM OUT AND HE FAILED TO APPEAR AGAIN.
THE CHILD ABUSE CLAIM IS RELATED TO A YOUNG GIRL IN THE GUNDERSON/ MALCOLM RESIDENCE THAT WAS NOT ENROLLED IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. WHEN THE POLICE KNOCKED ON THEIR DOOR, WERE REFUSED ENTRY, SO HAD TO GO BACK FOR A WARENT, THEY ALL CLEARED OUT IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT. NEIGHBORS ALSO DESCRIBED SQUALID CONDITIONS AT THE HOME AMONG OTHER THINGS.

Do you know if a Christopher Link Jones was also a webmaster for Ted Gunderson? And if so, is he the same guy who infiltrated Bohemian Grove and became associated with Alex Jones?

ONE AND THE SAME. HE IS IN PRISON FOR MOLESTING YOUNG NEIGHBOR BOYS IN CALIFORNIA. HIS ARREST REPORT CAN BE FOUND ONLINE- CHRISTOPHER LINK JONES

What about Debbie Nathan? You must be aware of her essay titled, "McMartin Preschool Tunnel Claims: Evidence of a Hoax." It is reposted on my new blog entry. She says she has various proof, police reports etc.. She says in 1984 you reported to the police that your daughter had been abused by your ex-boyfriend, a reporter for The Daily Breeze. She says you also complained to the police in 1985 that she was molested by a therapist at the Richstone Center.

DEBBIE NATHAN IS A LIAR.
SHE GOT THE POLICE REPORTS FROM THE MCMARTIN DEFENSE TEAM AND SHE TWISTS THE INFORMATION TO SUIT HER AND FMSF'S AGENDA.


Nathan also wrote that in 1985 when an initial dig was taking place, a small map was found by investigators with a picture of the school along with two X's pointing to tortoise shells. Any comment?

TWISTED AGAIN. I DON'T REMEMBER WHICH INVESTIGATOR FOUND THE MAP-MAY HAVE BEEN PAUL BYNUM WHO WAS HIRED BY BUCKEY.THE MAP WAS NOT AT THE 1985 DIG COMMISSIONED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS OFFICE. THEY SEARCHED DOWN ABOUT 6 INCHES ONLY IN THE SIDE YARD. THEY DID NOT LOOK UNDER THE PRESCHOOL BUILDING AS WAS DONE IN THE 1990 DIG BY THE ARCHAEOLOGIST THE PARENTS HIRED.

I see elsewhere that you don't buy into the satanic cult angle brought forth by Gunderson and others. That is to your credit. But why don't you just release the archaeological dig report? Are you holding out to make money off of it? Why wait? What's the point of holding off any longer?

IT IS NOT PROPERLY FINISHED. I COULD RELEASE IT UNFINISHED, AM LOOKING INTO THAT NOW. I AM NOT LOOKING TO MAKE ANY MONEY ON THE REPORT. I MADE SEVERAL HUNDRED COPIES AT MY EXPENSE AND GAVE THEM AWAY FREE OR ONLY CHARGED MY COST; $20 EACH. I WILL TRY TO POST IT ONLINE BUT I'D PREFER TO HAVE IT COMPLETE.


Are you denying that there was a satanic panic that spread across America and into Europe? How do you feel about other high profile cases which revolved around wild claims of satanic ritual abuse and international pedophile rings? Do you think any innocent people went to jail?

WHO CAN SAY IF ANY INNOCENT PEOPLE WENT TO JAIL OR NOT? THOUGH OF THE CASES I KNOW ABOUT, I DOUBT IT.
I DON'T DENY THE SATANIC PANIC THEORY BUT THERE WERE CHILDREN MOLESTED AND THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE!!!
SATANIC PANIC WAS USED IN THOSE CASES TO DIVERT PUBLIC ATTENTION FROM THE REAL CRIME-CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE-PLUS SATANISM STORIES SOLD PAPERS AND GOT GOOD TV RATINGS.THE MEDIA USED IT FOR MANY YEARS AROUND HALLOWEEN/SWEEPS WEEK.

MORE IN NEXT POST-THIS WAS TOO LONG TO BE ACCEPTED...

Anonymous said...

CONTINUED...

Do you ever consider that you may be wrong? Those of us who believe the McMartin Preschool and other cases were hoaxes do not blame the parents or every cop, social worker, etc. who was involved. Maybe we are upset at those who cannot admit that the crazed panic led to innocent people going to jail. I personally believe that Gunderson as an accomplished FBI man during the cointelpro era was put forward to give the satanic cult meme gravitas. I believe it has been used to cover up provable big conspiracies, for example, those revolving around the Promis software and the Cabazon murders. I believe convolution has been deliberately spread on the internet to muddy the waters.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT GUNDERSON'S REAL AGENDA IS. I DO KNOW HIS EX WIFE CONFIRMS THAT HE WAS DIAGNOSED PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC-AS IS HIS SON AND DAUGHTER-MANY YEARS AGO. AND HE WAS INVOLVED IN COINTELPRO IN THE BLACK PANTHER/BOBBY SEAL CASE.
OF COURSE I HAVE CONSIDERED THAT I MAY BE WRONG OVER THE YEARS. BUT I CAN NOT DENY MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES WITH MY OWN CHILD AND TH EPRESCHOOL. I DO BELIEVE THERE WAS CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE AT THE PRESCHOOL INVOLVING MANY CHILDREN.


What's up with those Brice Taylor and Barbara Hartwell women? I see Brice's real name is Sue Ford. Does anyone know who her family were? Or how her crazy story got started? Gunderson is fully discredited in my book by having gone into their corner. I couldn't care less if Hartwell now purports to hate him. One can also link Gunderson directly to holocaust revisionists and other right woos left propaganda.

I CAN'T VOUCH FOR ANY OF THAT.
GUNDERSON WAS INVOLVED HEAVILY WITH LYNDON LAROUCHE WHEN HE WAS AT MY HOUSE (MY HOUSE BECAUSE THE LEASE WAS IN MY NAME ONLY)
I THINK HE IS A SICK MAN AND NEEDS TO BE ON MEDS.

We had a case similar to yours in Massachusetts called Fells Acres. It had the same kind of result with innocent people going to jail. Nothing personal, but I don't believe there was any tunnel at the McMartin Preschool. It looks like it was either an area where plumbing was put in, or where waste areas were created. Why are you holding onto the report? If you really wanted to show proof that hundreds of children were abused in satanic rituals at McMartin, surely you would publish the whole report. If noone has paid you money by now, what makes you think someone ever will?

I AM NOT WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY ME MONEY. I PLAN ON PAYING FOR IT MYSELF. I HAVEN'T HAD THE FUNDS FOR IT BUT RECENTLY THE INTERNET IS BETTER ABLE TO MEET MY NEEDS FOR PUTTING IT ON LINE.

December 26, 2009 9:13 PM

SORRY FOR THE DELAY IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS. I NEVER WAS ALERTED TO THESE POSTS.
THANKS
JM

socrates said...

I doubt you were just notified about additional posts made on this entry. You must mean you just checked your email address and found this out.

No one's disputing that you are in control of the tunnel report. People are curious why it was never published in its entirety for all to see. There have also been many convincing words written explaining what was up with your so-called tunnels.

Funny how you offer some video of an old 1992 Geraldo episode purportedly spotting Bobby Fischer. As if that would even mean anything.

Debbie Nathan thoroughly exposed the scam which is the McMartin Daycare PreSchool hoax. In this essay, she offers to share such evidence and merely asks for copying and postage costs.

Hey, if you want to upload the Bobby Fischer Geraldo thingie you are rambling about, more power to you. It appears to have been uploaded before to youtube but has been since deleted.

socrates said...

Hi, we posted at the same time, so my last post will seem like I didn't respond fairly. I can't reply now. If you would like, I can start a new thread on the frontpage for you to post whatever you want to. Otherwise, few are probably going to be reading this. Take it easy.

socrates said...

Hi again. I'll now do my best to respond to your posts.

I haven't a clue on the convolution concerning Gunderson and DeCamp. My gut tells me it is about the willful spreading of disinfo.

I find it thoroughly interesting that Alex Jones can be tied to Ted Gunderson.

And this takes me to our differences. I don't believe you are a willing dispenser of disinformation. The same thing goes for Noreen Gosch. Heck, I've made mistakes myself. It's the reader that decides. There's no need for any hostility, and I apologise for any of that I may have directed at yourself. Anyway, that's where misinfo comes in rather than disinfo. There is a big difference.

We can safely say Gunderson was probably involved with cointelpro. He was a higher up in the FBI during that time. But to call him part of a black budget psyops after he left the FBI, that's a tough call. I think he was. Could he have just gone batshit insane? That's also a possibility.

As to what you say about Debbie Nathan, unless you can show those police reports and how you allege she twisted it, I think it's unfair of you to call her a liar. You picked a side in this thing decades ago. It appears to me that you like many others merely fit things into that belief system. You've put so much time and effort into a well-crafted hoax or hysteria, that it would shock your system to find out you've been had. You might also end up feeling incredible guilt for what kind of life you established for your child.

This is nothing personal, Jackie. I actually feel bad for you. My advice is to try to find a third party, someone with no dog in the hunt who is smart enough to look at all the evidence and tell you the real deal. You owe Debbie Nathan an apology. She's a journalist. She wasn't out to get you or to make a name for herself or whatever. You need to prove your case. Saying Debbie Nathan is a liar dcesn't make it true. In fact, when you make unsubstantiated comments like that, it makes you look like you're suffering some kind of chronic mental illness and need help. You don't want to end up like Noreen Gosch holding onto delusions to the end.

I'm sorry, but the McMartins were completely innocent. The satanic panic was real. Many innocent people like them and the Amiraults went to prison based on hysteria, whether that was induced by a psyop or by social trends.

I don't see you debunking any of the obvious flaws in the McMartin Case. I think I'll be making a new entry soon on this story. You're free to post. I won't censor you.

If you don't mind me asking, how is your child? Are you still in contact with him or her? Does she ever discuss the experience in public, or maybe she was too young to truly remember what happened?

You also mention that Gunderson was in contact with Lyndon LaRouche. How do you know this, and what was there relationship? Thanks for your time.

Anonymous said...

Hi again. I'll now do my best to respond to your posts.

THANKS, I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT TO GE TO THE TRUTH . SORRY TO USE CAPS ..I'M NOT YELLING :)
I HAVE AN ALERT SET UP FOR MY NAME AND THEY OFTEN SEND OLD POSTS.

I haven't a clue on the convolution concerning Gunderson and DeCamp. My gut tells me it is about the willful spreading of disinfo.

ME EITHER...

I find it thoroughly interesting that Alex Jones can be tied to Ted Gunderson.

And this takes me to our differences. I don't believe you are a willing dispenser of disinformation. The same thing goes for Noreen Gosch. TED MET HER THROUGH ME. I KNEW HER SINCE 1984. Heck, I've made mistakes myself. It's the reader that decides. There's no need for any hostility, and I apologise for any of that I may have directed at yourself. THANKS. Anyway, that's where misinfo comes in rather than disinfo. There is a big difference.

We can safely say Gunderson was probably involved with cointelpro. THE BLACK PANTHER INFO IS EASY ENOUGH TO FIND..He was a higher up in the FBI during that time. But to call him part of a black budget psyops after he left the FBI, that's a tough call. YEP, SOMETHING WE HAVE DEBATING FOR YEARS..WE JUST WONDER HOW HE STAYS OUT OF PRISON FOR. I think he was. Could he have just gone batshit insane? That's also a possibility.
IF I HAD TO CHOOSE, I'D TAKE BATSHIT INSANE, BUT WHY DOES HE GET AWAY WITH SO MANY CRIMES?? MAYBE HE IS JUST THAT SAAVY-WE DN'T GET IT.
As to what you say about Debbie Nathan, unless you can show those police reports and how you allege she twisted it, I think it's unfair of you to call her a liar. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET MY POLICE REPORTS. DIDN'T THINK I HAD TO BUT HTEY ARE MY REPORTS AND UNLESS THE POLICE WERE THE ONES THAT TWISTED THE CONTENT, HICH I DOUBT, THEN DEBBIE IS THE TWISTER. You picked a side in this thing decades ago. WELL, HMMMM IT WAS MY CASE LONG BEFORE DEBBIE CAME ALONG. It appears to me that you like many others merely fit things into that belief system. NO, IT WAS OUR EXPERIENCE AS THE CASE UNFOLDED... You've put so much time and effort into a well-crafted hoax or hysteria, that it would shock your system to find out you've been had. IF I HAD BEEN 'HAD' DEBBIE'S WRITING WOULDN'T BE WHAT WOULD CONVINCE ME.. FOR SURE!! You might also end up feeling incredible guilt for what kind of life you established for your child.

2 PARTS, AGAIN...

Anonymous said...

This is nothing personal, Jackie. I actually feel bad for you. My advice is to try to find a third party, someone with no dog in the hunt who is smart enough to look at all the evidence and tell you the real deal. THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS LL BIIOUT THE INVESTIGATION AND TRIAL AND I KNOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE. POLICE, D.A. FORMER MCMARTIN 'STUDENTS'.. AND NONE OF THEM AGREE WITH YOU AND DEBBIE'S THEORY. ARE YOU TELLING ME I SHOULD LISTEN TO FMSF AND NOT THE PRINCIPALS INVOLVED IN THE CASE? FMSF STARTED WRITING ABOUT THE CASE IN THE 90S-- 10 YEARS AFTER THE FACT. You owe Debbie Nathan an apology. She's a journalist. She wasn't out to get you or to make a name for herself or whatever. SHE NAMED ME AND WENT AFTER ME.. SHE OWES ME AN APOLOGY AND A RETRACTION OF EVERYTHING SHE WROTE ABOUT ME. You need to prove your case. Saying Debbie Nathan is a liar dcesn't make it true. In fact, when you make unsubstantiated comments like that, it makes you look like you're suffering some kind of chronic mental illness and need help. WOW- THINK ABOUT THAT STATEMENT. DEBBIE WROTE THAT JUDY JOHNSON WAS MENTALLY ILL-IT WAS A DEFENSE TACTIC-BUT NOT TRUE. HOW IS A COMMENT ABOUT MY OWN EXPERIENCE UNSUBSTANTIATED? You don't want to end up like Noreen Gosch holding onto delusions to the end.YEAH, I WARNED NOREEN ABOUT GUNDERSON, I KNEW HER HUSBAND JOHN, SR. I THINK SHE WENT ALONG WITH GUNDERSON'S CRAZINESS, ALL OF HER INFORMATION WAS NOT DEVELOPED BY PROFESSIONALS, JUST GUNDERSON. BUT I DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW WHAT IS TRUE OR NOT ABOT HER SITUATION.

I'm sorry, but the McMartins were completely innocent. The satanic panic was real. Many innocent people like them and the Amiraults went to prison based on hysteria, whether that was induced by a psyop or by social trends. ASK ANYONE IN PRISON AND THEY WILL SAY THEY ARE INNOCENT...

I don't see you debunking any of the obvious flaws in the McMartin Case. I think I'll be making a new entry soon on this story. You're free to post. I won't censor you. LET ME KNOW.

If you don't mind me asking, how is your child? Are you still in contact with him or her? Does she ever discuss the experience in public, or maybe she was too young to truly remember what happened? MY CHILDREN ARE FINE.

PART 2...

You also mention that Gunderson was in contact with Lyndon LaRouche. How do you know this, and what was there relationship? Thanks for your time.
JEFFERY STEINBERG, LAROUCHE'S INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, WAS AT MY HOUSE OFTEN. HE LIVES IN LEESBERG, VA. LAROUCHE PUBLISHED DECAMP'S BOOK. IT TOOK SOME RESEARCH TO PROOVE THAT.
THERE IS A SITE THAT SHOWS ASSOCIATIONS FOR PEOPLE.CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT RIGHT NOW,,,, I'LL POST IT IN A MINUTE WHEN I FIND IT..

Anonymous said...

Found it.
NAME BASE PROXIMITY SEARCH. Don't know how this is put together, but it was the first place i saw the connections after hearing it from 2 other sources.
In searching ofr that, i found a ton of references to the gunderson, deCamp, LaRouche connection.

socrates said...

Hi Jackie, thanks for the responses.

I don't mind the all caps to offset my words from your own. I find it kind of cute. (Sorry, I am an internet flirter at times. p:>) Though it's unnecessary. I promise to never delete my posts, so you don't have to repost what I've written.

Also, there's a new thread on the frontpage with McMartin in the heading. Like I said before, since this is in the archives, our posts are less likely to be seen. If you want more exposure for your ideas, you'd be better off posting on that thread. I'll never censor you.

I'll recant a bit. I do see somewhat a connection between DeCamp and Gunderson, and by extension with Michael Aquino and others. This is where the satanic panic meets internet convolution. I do understand what you mean by not believing in a satanic panic. I just think we're looking at that phrase from different perspectives. Of course you believe there was criminal activity taking place at the McMartin Preschool. Thus, you see the satanic panic as what is referred to as a limited hangout used to cover up what you allege were real crimes.

There are logistical problems with getting to the bottom of Ted Gunderson's activities through the internet. The search engines are too cluttered with nonsense coming out of News Making News, Barbara Hartwell, etc..

What crimes do you allege Ted has gotten away with? I think it's important to always separate what we can prove from what we believe.

Debbie Nathan has offered for anyone to write to her with a request for the documents, and if you give her postage and copy costs, she says she'll send them. You might want to try that.

I hope this isn't too painful for you. At some point, it may be in your interest to let it go. I know this has been a big part of your life. But if it's still causing you pain, imho it's not worth it.

As for debating this story, I feel it's not in my interest to do so. People can easily find both sides of the argument and decide for themselves. I don't want you to take that as my saying don't post whatever you want to on this blog.

I mean, I could try to talk this out. For instance, Judy Johnson was definitely out there in regards to mental health. A lot of things got said that couldn't possibly have been true. Months ago, I was fully engrossed in this topic. But I've kind of moved on. This is why I'd much rather you make any additional posts on the new thread, That would force me to make posts in return, or enable any readers to see that this discussion has continued. I did link to this thread in the new one, so no problem there.

I'm very happy to hear your children are doing well. That's the most important thing at this point, along with you too experiencing some peace of mind and happiness.

I know about that name base proximity thingie you mention. I've seen that before. It doesn't really mean anything much more than that different names can be linked to as in links. For example, say I had a real name and was a bigger player for this subject area. For your page, I might be listed, even if we had never met through this blog. Or say there is a page for yourself. Ted would be there. Even people you aren't that directly related to, say for example Kee MacFarlane.

Thanks for the info that the LaRouchian guy visited your place years ago. They have been plugging the satanic ritual abuse/mkultra thingie for years. LaRouche and his organisation have been bizarre. I would not be surprised if he has been some kind of psyop worker for decades. One last thing I'm thinking, there's this guy Webster Tarpley who has been a host on the same disinfo radio network as Alex Jones. He also has been involved directly with LaRouche.

The new thread can be found here:

The McMartin Preschool Scandal Briefly Revisited and Free the West Memphis 3 Immediately

Take care.

Frieda said...

To present another side of the case, there was evidence the children were abused at McMartin.

A New York Times article (4/13/85
Reporter’s Notebook: 6 Months of California Case By Robert Lindsey) stated that the prosecution would present 41 former children from the school and that almost all showed physical evidence of having been sexually abused with testimony from physicians.

After the trial, almost all of the jurors stated they believed the children had been abused. (Tapes of Children Decided the Case for Most Jurors L A Times 1/19/90)

Tunnels were found at McMartin.

Archaeological Investigations of the McMartin Preschool Site, Manhattan Beach, California

http://web.archive.org/web/20010123212200/members.cruzio.com/~ratf/McMartin.html/

The Dark Tunnels of McMartin
http://web.archive.org/web/20060426210043/http://www.geocities.com/kidhistory/mcmartin.htm

There is no evidence that Judy Johnson suffered from any psychological problems when she made the original accusations.

The trial lasted many years and produced several deadlocked jury counts. The case was very complex and hard fought on both sides.

socrates said...

If you look closely at Frieda's post, you will see how believers seek to spread their cult centered around the idea of widespread ritual abuse. They want "their side" to have a veneer of respectability, that we're beyond talking about enigmas, that this unsubstantiated mess of tinfoil is legit.

Ok, what's next? Theresa Duncan and Jeremy Blake faked their deaths trying to sell some movie or whatnot? That's bullshit. The way Frieda and others present their schticks ditto.

Look at how the post is structured. It goes from the New York Times and blends into materials produced by the deluded. There's no way to converse with such clutter.

No link is given to where the NYT's part is from. There's no way to tell what is written from what may be plagiarised. The first link is from one of those whackjob type sra-mkultra centers like the one Neil Brick runs and probably acts as a referrer for crackpot psychologists.

I guess the deluded realise that no tunnels means the McMartins were railroaded. That's why they continue to make their fantasy world even more elaborate.

This is getting redundant. You can right click for new windows. Ever notice how believers of widespread satanic ritual abuse don't know how to make proper posts?

The underground "tunnels" of the McMartin Preschool


McMartin Preschool Tunnel Claims: Evidence of a Hoax


As for Judy Johnson, sorry, but she was a complete nutjob who set off the hysteria. Diaper rash or whatever is not child abuse. Putting innocent people in prison is one of the worst things society can do to its citizens. To newbies and fence-sitters, I recommend you seek out the best evidence, figure it out using critical thinking skills, then move on. I'm not saying forget about it completely. But when you see these types of responses by people like Frieda, you start to understand that while she technically isn't a troll, her post is technically troll spam.

Notes from an Interview with Judy Johnson


Satanic abuse and McMartin: a global village rumour by RICHARD WEBSTER (excerpt)

THE EVENTS WHICH LED to a full-scale satanic panic in California took place in Manhattan Beach during the summer of 1983. It was here that a thirty-eight-year-old mother, Judy Johnson, who was both devoutly religious and psychiatrically disturbed, concluded on the basis of no firm evidence that her two-year-old son had been anally abused at his daycare nursery by a male teacher. Her own anxieties were officially communicated to two hundred other parents and soon counsellors began to subject young children to a barrage of leading questions designed to elicit ‘disclosures’. Then, as Judy Johnson’s claims became increasingly bizarre, the word spread that the school at the centre of the panic – the McMartin Preschool – was actually the cover for a sex ring.

After a TV reporter had filed a sensational story on these Californian horrors an outside consultant was called in. He was none other than psychiatrist Lawrence Pazder. His theory that McMartin was the visible tip of a vast international satanic conspiracy was eagerly adopted by some parents and therapists and used to obtain yet more ‘disclosures’ from children. Before long the McMartin case had become a coast-to-coast TV sensation, and a full scale national satanic panic had been launched. (Eventually all charges against the accused in the McMartin case would be either rejected by a jury or dismissed.)

Frieda said...

The New York Times and L A Times articles are available at their websites. The information from them is accurate.

The next two websites are 1) a description of the tunnel report and 2) a legitimate journal article from Summit, an expert researching the case.

The websites you list are special interest websites promoting a slanted perspective on the case.

You have no evidence Johnson had any psychological problems when she made her accusations.

Critical thinking skills show there are two sides to this case.
This is why the case took many years to finish and had several hung juries.

socrates said...

my response

Anonymous said...

You are right. I am done.

Frieda said...

I never post as anonymous. Respectfully, I don't think you are right here. That is a nice picture of lion though.

TruthShallSetYouFree said...

Gunderson worked under J. Edgar Hoover in COINTELPRO operations. They went after "targets"
whistleblowers and activists.

The organization is alive and well.

Barbara Hartwell and Stew Webb were and are telling the truth about Gunderson and the rest of this gang. They were isolated, alone, discredited and demonized which is how the COINTELPRO were able to get away with their attacks against them for so long.

Gunderson was a double agent. He pretended to be protecting and helping children and families who were victims of child sex trafficking and pedophilia but it was all a diversion, to give some semblance that people were actually being helped.

The Franklin Cover-up or "double cover-up" was actually a diversion off of much bigger crimes that were happening against children, so was the McMartin Pre-School case.

Gunderson also married Diana Rively who was the church of satan's founder, Anton LaVey's ex-wife. There were many rumors that Gunderson was practicing satanism.

Dr. Len Horowitz and Sherri Kane have also been heavily attacked by Gunderson's "Division 5" working with the CIA and the NSA. They are suing all of these guys pro se'. One thing about these guys is that cannot get in legal trouble, because they become compromised. This is why a lot of them will try evade service if you try to bring them to court.

There is an group of them that work together: Gunderson, Anthony Hilder,the fake doctor A "True" Ott aka Alma C. Ott and his subordinate Alex McGowin Studer, Dr Bill Deagle, Greg Szymanski aka Eric Samuelson, Eric Jon Phelps and his shadow Craig Oxley, Benjamin Fulford, Don Nicoloff, Ken Adachi aka Peter Boudreau, Todd Brendan Fahey aka Zeena Carpenter, and predicate felon Timothy Patrick White.
Alex Jones, David Icke, and Google are complicit with these guys.
They are part of "controlled opposition."

This organized crime--RICO-that these cyber gang stalkers are involved in.

Danny Casolaro was a victim of their crime ring.

More and more journalists are coming out about being attacked by these guys.

Thank God before Gunderson died last year, he saw himself being exposed with the truth.

See http://www.waronwethepeople.com and http://www.sherrikane.com

socrates said...

To TruthShallSetYouFree,

You're obviously deluded and/or a con artist.

Go spam someone else's blog.

TruthShallSetYouFree said...

ouSocrates, for you to have reacted to what I have posted this way, it can only mean one thing...You are part of the Counter Intelligence, mix it all up, confuse and discredit everything and everyone. That is standard COINTELPRO controlled opposition procedure.

You don't deserve to have me contribute to your blog! You are a trader to "We The People."

Calimiket said...

So are we going to get pics of the tunnel or not. How hard is it to upload some pics?